By that I mean no alienating tech like Tiktok and such, strong middle class, normal seasons/no worry of climate crisis, general optimism about the future etc. etc.
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No i hope you won’t get back your 90’s. You can take MY 90’s when your country is demolished and sold for peanuts and people lost their living, their savings, their jobs and their hope, just like mine was for the profit of yours.
Oh, great, another butthurt tankie. No one cares about your country.
The good life of the 80s?
well, OP seems to be a healthy white straight male in his 20s, otherwise they definitely wouldn’t comment this.
Uuuuuugh, again, I repeat: NO CLIMATE CRISIS AND CHEAPER LIVING MAKE THE 80S A BETTER TIME
1981 interest rates: 18%.
1980s homicide rate 10.2/100000, today: 6.3/100000
(Violent crime follows this trend)Lead. Lead everywhere
And asbestos. I work in hazardous materials and the amount of things that had asbestos in them is terrifying.
Asbestos carpets, and asbestos-structured paint for fucks sake. Imagine how many peoppe sanded down asbestos paint…
Why should I care?
Again, no climate crisis + cheaper housing = nobody cares.
Growing up in the 80s, climate was a crisis, it was just ignored, so we are here now, with interest. We (society)did just a little to deal with the hole in the ozone layer, then punted.
And life was better because the effects were limited. Not that hard to understand m8.
You can’t. Capitalism has decayed, trying to move the clock backwards is where fascism comes from. That’s why fascism is reactionary, it’s an alliance of the Petite Bourgeoisie and Bourgeoisie against rising leftist sentiment among the Proletariat and Lumpenproletariat.
Trying to struggle backwards against the historical development of the Mode of Production in society is reactionary, Capitalism moves towards large monopolist syndicates which makes itself ripe for siezure and public ownership, ie socialization. Even if you successfully broke up monopolies, they would trend towards the same point we are at now.
Additionally, it was quite terrible for ethnic minority groups (still is), gender/sexual minority groups, women, etc., and this was in the context of trying to prevent a worker revolution similar to what happened in the USSR. The social safety nets were better so it was harder to look at universal free healthcare and education in the USSR and believe they had it better, with the fall of the USSR safety nets quickly eroded in the US.
Now, to escape this hellish landscape, we need to move forward, not backward, and that means progressing to Socialism. The way forward is via revolution, which starts with organizing. Without revolutionary theory, there can be no revolutionary movement.
The 2 best orgs in the US are Freedom Road Socialist Organization (FRSO) and the Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL). Pick one you like and is active near you! If you have any theory questions, I can make recommendations for a reading list, or answer directly to the best of my abilities. I’m no theory master or anything, but I consider myself decently well-read, with over 2 dozen books across Marxism and Marxism-Leninism under my belt, so I’m no slouch.
I have two questions.
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After the revolution, how to you prevent the people that were influential during the revolution from seizing power for themselves, becoming the new bourgeoisie. This happened time and time again in practice.
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Even in the best case scenario, the decisions on what to produce become centralized in the hands of politicians. Political systems that we tried so far don’t work that well in practice. Is this really the best solution?
- After the revolution, how to you prevent the people that were influential during the revolution from seizing power for themselves, becoming the new bourgeoisie. This happened time and time again in practice.
This hasn’t happened “time and time again in practice.” What do you mean by a “new bourgeoisie?” How familiar are you with Marxism? You may want to read the book Blackshirts and Reds for clarifying and contextualizing the myriad successes and failures of AES states historically.
- Even in the best case scenario, the decisions on what to produce become centralized in the hands of politicians. Political systems that we tried so far don’t work that well in practice. Is this really the best solution?
Again, please elaborate. Centralization is a natural consequence of market-based systems over time, therefore Marxists see central planning of public property to be the next phase in Mode of Production. Marxism isn’t about trying to force a new society, but moving along the natural progression in Mode of Production.
AES states have not been perfect, but they have dramatically improved on previous systems. I think a good intro to the process of historical development would be reading the short essay Why do Marxists fail to bring about the “Worker’s Paradise?” You seem to believe Socialism to be something that can be implemented by decree, by fiat, rather than something that forms over time. The laws of a system depend on the Mode of Production, the capacity for democratization increases alongside centralization and increases in the productive forces. This process is why Marx says the bourgeoisie produces “more than anything, its own gravediggers.”
I’d recommend reading the second link before the first, the second article gets to the heart of your issues and takes around 20 minutes, the first link is a full book and is generally a good read, not as immediately relevant.
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Can I ask a doubt?
Bourgeoisie, Petite Bourgeoisie, Proletarait & LumpenproletariatWhat would be simpler terms(or brief 3-5 word plain language explanations) for those?
Ultra rich wealth/land hoarders/exploiters, Their immediate managers, facilitators and upper mid-level wealth/land hoarders, Average workers & Average people who are dissatisfied?Ultra rich wealth/land hoarders/exploiters
upper mid-level wealth/land hoarders,
Depends, there’s many in history that can fit the bill (eg. feudal lords (crop rent), industrial capitalists (factory profit), slaveowners (goods and free labor profit), and aristocracy of finance and land (money interest and land rent) )
Their immediate managers, facilitators
Professional managerial class, or compradors for the main dominant capitalist group (eg. the West) / hegemonic capitalist group
Average workers & Average people who are dissatisfied?
Proletariat and lumpenprole?
Let’s see here
Bourgeoisie:
includes grande (big) and moyenne (medium) bourgeoisie, but essentially they are medium (regional/national) and large (global) capitalists, that mainly rely on industrial profit, if not landed rend, and financial interest, based around growing industrial and financial production
Though I consider bourgeoisie in its western context, to specifically refer to the first modern form in Europe, birthed from the Medieval period
Bourg-eois --> Bourg derives from the medieval German term for “city”, as they derived from the growing cities of their era
Petty-bourgeoisie:
a small business owner (only a handful of businesses directly owned by them)
Proletariat:
wage/salaried laborers who depend heavily on their wage/salary, lest a few days/weeks leave em destitute and homeless
They are historically converted from the destruction of peasants, yeomanry, guild craftsmen, apprentices and mentors, during the progressive bourgeois revolution against feudalism.
Originally, in Rome, such term was derived from those citizens who made offspring to serve the Roman slave mode of production
Lumpenproletariat
despite its name, it is a similarly newly-created class of capitalism, more destitute and ruined than the proletariat, defined by a lack of official joblessness and stability, which include people from the simply unemployed and unhoused to criminals, strike-breakers, prostitutes, and gangsters
They are a wild card that can ally with either bourgeois or proletariat forces
Lumpen (rabble) + proletariat
Bourgeoisie - Capital Owners, doesn’t need to labor to survive
Petite Bourgeoisie - Small Capital Owners, must labor to survive
Proletariat - Workers, sell their labor power to survive and own little to no Capital
Lumpenproletariat - criminals, sex workers, the scorned laborers of society
There will be no revolution, mate.
That’s like saying you can keep heating up water and have it never boil. Disparity is rising, revolution is already happening around the world. Capitalism is continuing to decay. Revolution is inevitable as long as climate collapse or World War 3 don’t end us first. It is the duty of Leftists to organize so that this revolution can be guided by revolutionary theory and not result in barbarism or fascism.
Not a USA-ian, but weren’t issues like racism and homophobia worse off then?
Yeah, but we talked about it way less, so it didn’t seem like a big deal.
/s?
Man, I am much more worried about climate crisis and not being able to buy a house.
You can worry about two things. You know, if you want.
Yes, but again, life was better because of what I mentioned in the post.
Right. We have to regain the good without losing our progress.
Except that there’s basically no good.
…the rights that people have gained in the last 30 years? Like gay marriage?
Climate crisis.
Climate crisis.
Climate crisis.
Ok. Which is why I said, we need to go back to the good, while keeping the progress we made. You asked about the progress. This is the progress I meant.
Ozone hole anybody? The climate crisis existed back then, do you think it suddenly popped into existence? It has existed since the second Industrial Revolution, it just got progressively worse
The 80s and 90s still had a relatively normal situation, that’s what I’m saying.
You want to go back to (nonexistent) 80s climate policy?? I don’t think you’ve thought this through.
No, I want to go when seasons were normal and we didn’t feel the effect of climate crisis.
Sorry, I left my magic wand in my other pants…
Climate crisis is worse.
There are a lot of problems, but there are a lot of things we aren’t worrying about now, either. AIDS was killing millions, and there was no treatment. The Satanic Panic. People were exposed to lead and asbestos everywhere. Duck and cover drills in schools for when the nukes went off. I mean, we’re all scrambling to figure out how to stop climate disasters, but then they were scrambling to stop some nutter on either side from pushing a button and ending the world! Where I come from, they still took kids away from their parents for the crime of being Aboriginal! Things change.
I choose to be optimistic. All through the twentieth century, overpopulation and mass famine were looming spectres, and better crops, phosphate fertilizers, falling birthdates all led to us not really being that worried about that. Read Stand on Zanzibar.
Crime rates are down all over the world.
The inequality? 1920’s. The FTC and the EU are (finally, IMO) taking big tech to task for their monopolistic behaviour. It’s moving slow, but there is starting to be the political will to address the challenges.
Things go in cycles.
There are a lot of problems, but there are a lot of things we aren’t worrying about now, either. AIDS was killing millions, and there was no treatment. The Satanic Panic. People were exposed to lead and asbestos everywhere. Duck and cover drills in schools for when the nukes went off. I mean, we’re all scrambling to figure out how to stop climate disasters, but then they were scrambling to stop some nutter on either side from pushing a button and ending the world! Where I come from, they still took kids away from their parents for the crime of being Aboriginal! Things change.
Yeah, because that risk doesn’t exist anymore…
