I don’t understand your logic here. Declaring yourself “uncommitted” is the only leverage you have over a party that wants your vote. Telling them “I’m gonna vote for you but I won’t like it!” sounds the exact same to them as “I’m gonna vote for you and I love you!”. Once they have your vote guaranteed, they no longer have to address your concerns. This movement is targeting democrats because they are perceived as more susceptible to this kind of pressure (anti genocide). However, the pressure has to be applied to have a chance of success.
It’s foreign policy. Israel and Palestine was the most complex foreign policy issues in the world before October 7. Now it’s even worse. Joe Biden is working hard on a ceasefire. But he’s trying to get Netanyahu (who’s an incompetent fraudster not all that different from Trump) to make an agreement with Hamas which just made the architect of October 7 their leader. Most people understand this isn’t something that’s going to be easy.
But to the “uncommitted” he’s “Genocide Joe” and he’s complicit in war crimes. Companies that do any business in Israel? Also complicit. Universities that do business with companies that do business in Israel? Also complicit. I saw an article the other day that was saying Radiohead is somehow complicit for playing a gig in Israel a decade ago.
So you’re telling me that there’s something Kamala Harris (who is Vice President in Joe Biden’s administration) can do that will not make her complicit from the perspective of the “Genocide Joe” crowd? This is the problem when activists let their emotions run wild to the extent they no longer capable of any kind of compromise. There is nothing anyone can do to appease the most vocal in that group. There are many subs on this site where you get insta-banned if you deviate from the “Genocide Joe” rhetoric for even a second. People in this crowd don’t want to understand any nuance or hear anything other then expression of hatred towards Israel. The pro-Palestine crowd has become such an impenetrable bubble that Harris is more likely to convince every single MAGA to vote for her before she gets people in the pro-Palestine bubble to vote for her.
That movement has gone too far down a path of hatred to be able to engage in a positive way. It’s to the point now that I don’t feel like the goal is to actually help Palestinians, but it now seems to be mostly about hating Israel and playing a game degrees of separation from Israel to determine if someone is with the “evil Israelis”.
Bottom line, Kamala Harris isn’t going to get many votes from the “Genocide Joe” crowd no matter what she does.
But take heart, none of these protests ever meant anything anyway. Just not how foreign policy works. The most likely scenario is the “Genocide Joe” you hate will eventually bring an end to the conflict, which is exactly what would’ve happened without the protests. It’s only if Trump wins and Biden isn’t able to negotiate a ceasefire before Trump takes office will your protest have had an effect. And that effect will be an extreme negative for Palestinians. Nothing good ever comes from hatred and nothing good will come for Palestinians by hating Israel and Joe Biden and everyone associated with them. But likely Harris will win without you and your protest will have accomplished nothing, which is better than the alternative where your protest made things worse for Palestinians.
All you have is hatred. Now you’ve resorted to insulting me. Your hatred has made you incapable of having a conversation. You’ve removed yourself from political discourse because of an inability to have conversations without being overpowered by hatred.
Try harder to think about what you want to accomplish and how to best go about accomplishing it. You’re not being effective right now. Consider what you can do to actually be effective. Refusing to vote, refusing to discuss anything, throwing around insults doesn’t help anyone in Gaza.
Just been my experience on this platform. Not sure how accusing everyone of genocide will help Palestinians, but I suspect a lot of these people don’t actually care about Palestinians, they’re just addicted to feeling self-righteous. Either way, they aren’t accomplishing anything positive.
You’re imagining me as some amalgamation of other users you’ve interacted with here, and probably a good measure of whole-cloth assumptions besides. You wrote a huge post addressed to these assumptions instead of me, yet you accused me of a disinterest in conversation. You seem to have come down from your self-righteous indignation a bit, but you’re still having a conversation with a phantom of your own creation. When I said ‘listen more, and talk less’, I didn’t just mean listen to me. It’s good, general advise. Take it or leave it.
I don’t understand your logic here. Declaring yourself “uncommitted” is the only leverage you have over a party that wants your vote. Telling them “I’m gonna vote for you but I won’t like it!” sounds the exact same to them as “I’m gonna vote for you and I love you!”. Once they have your vote guaranteed, they no longer have to address your concerns. This movement is targeting democrats because they are perceived as more susceptible to this kind of pressure (anti genocide). However, the pressure has to be applied to have a chance of success.
It’s foreign policy. Israel and Palestine was the most complex foreign policy issues in the world before October 7. Now it’s even worse. Joe Biden is working hard on a ceasefire. But he’s trying to get Netanyahu (who’s an incompetent fraudster not all that different from Trump) to make an agreement with Hamas which just made the architect of October 7 their leader. Most people understand this isn’t something that’s going to be easy.
But to the “uncommitted” he’s “Genocide Joe” and he’s complicit in war crimes. Companies that do any business in Israel? Also complicit. Universities that do business with companies that do business in Israel? Also complicit. I saw an article the other day that was saying Radiohead is somehow complicit for playing a gig in Israel a decade ago.
So you’re telling me that there’s something Kamala Harris (who is Vice President in Joe Biden’s administration) can do that will not make her complicit from the perspective of the “Genocide Joe” crowd? This is the problem when activists let their emotions run wild to the extent they no longer capable of any kind of compromise. There is nothing anyone can do to appease the most vocal in that group. There are many subs on this site where you get insta-banned if you deviate from the “Genocide Joe” rhetoric for even a second. People in this crowd don’t want to understand any nuance or hear anything other then expression of hatred towards Israel. The pro-Palestine crowd has become such an impenetrable bubble that Harris is more likely to convince every single MAGA to vote for her before she gets people in the pro-Palestine bubble to vote for her.
That movement has gone too far down a path of hatred to be able to engage in a positive way. It’s to the point now that I don’t feel like the goal is to actually help Palestinians, but it now seems to be mostly about hating Israel and playing a game degrees of separation from Israel to determine if someone is with the “evil Israelis”.
Bottom line, Kamala Harris isn’t going to get many votes from the “Genocide Joe” crowd no matter what she does.
But take heart, none of these protests ever meant anything anyway. Just not how foreign policy works. The most likely scenario is the “Genocide Joe” you hate will eventually bring an end to the conflict, which is exactly what would’ve happened without the protests. It’s only if Trump wins and Biden isn’t able to negotiate a ceasefire before Trump takes office will your protest have had an effect. And that effect will be an extreme negative for Palestinians. Nothing good ever comes from hatred and nothing good will come for Palestinians by hating Israel and Joe Biden and everyone associated with them. But likely Harris will win without you and your protest will have accomplished nothing, which is better than the alternative where your protest made things worse for Palestinians.
Jesus fuck. Talk less and listen more.
I’ve read you comment. Unfortunately your two sentences were not influential in any way.
Influential enough for you to spend a half an hour barfing up a bunch mostly irrelevant bullshit.
All you have is hatred. Now you’ve resorted to insulting me. Your hatred has made you incapable of having a conversation. You’ve removed yourself from political discourse because of an inability to have conversations without being overpowered by hatred.
Try harder to think about what you want to accomplish and how to best go about accomplishing it. You’re not being effective right now. Consider what you can do to actually be effective. Refusing to vote, refusing to discuss anything, throwing around insults doesn’t help anyone in Gaza.
What a rich imagination you have.
Just been my experience on this platform. Not sure how accusing everyone of genocide will help Palestinians, but I suspect a lot of these people don’t actually care about Palestinians, they’re just addicted to feeling self-righteous. Either way, they aren’t accomplishing anything positive.
You’re imagining me as some amalgamation of other users you’ve interacted with here, and probably a good measure of whole-cloth assumptions besides. You wrote a huge post addressed to these assumptions instead of me, yet you accused me of a disinterest in conversation. You seem to have come down from your self-righteous indignation a bit, but you’re still having a conversation with a phantom of your own creation. When I said ‘listen more, and talk less’, I didn’t just mean listen to me. It’s good, general advise. Take it or leave it.