An important question this article ignores, is why private school vouchers are chosen over public schools?

  • SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    Taxpayer money should only be used for public schools.

    Vouchers and the illusion of choice are simply there to defund the public school system and remove choice for big swatches of people that can’t afford private school.

    I think if you do want to send your kids to a private school it should be with your own money.

    • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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      3 months ago

      How do you figure vouchers are the “illusion” of choice? Do they not provide real, actual choice?

      • jacksilver@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        What happens when all schools are more expensive then the vouchers? We saw that happen with higher education, where reducing the state funded option has put the cost of college out of reach for many. Is the idea going forward that education will not be guaranteed?

        • Neuromancer@lemm.eeM
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          3 months ago

          If the private schools outpaced the public then people would still have the public option. The voucher programs I’ve seen suggested are based on the spending in a public school which is often double to triple of a private school.

          • jacksilver@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            These aren’t closed systems. If private schools become more expensive (because vouchers will work like student loans), it will make the cost of schooling in general more expensive (faculty wages, materials, supplies, etc.).

            Hell, just look at Arizona and you can see that there is a serve lack of understanding of the cost impact vouchers will have. They originally expected it to save money, now it’s half of their budget’s deficit. https://azmirror.com/2024/06/06/it-costs-arizona-332m-to-pay-for-vouchers-subsidizing-private-school-tuition-homeschooling/

            • Bongo_Stryker
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              3 months ago

              What? A real world example of school vouchers in action?

              the program takes money away from the district schools that educate 90% of Arizona’s K-12 students and that universal vouchers are essentially a subsidy for wealthy parents who were already sending their children to private schools before vouchers were available to them.

              How is this more choice? Seems like less.

              “Failure to rein in these costs means critical areas of state government expenditures will be cut to balance the budget,”

              So the actual result is a huge state budget deficit and less services for everyone. Huh. So why would anyone want this?

            • Neuromancer@lemm.eeM
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              3 months ago

              They won’t work like student loans. There is no debt other than what the government borrows. All they have to do is cap the vouchers at the price public schools pay per student and the locks the cost. Right now private schools are cheaper in 43 out of 50 states.

              • jacksilver@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                You should really read up more about how student loans caused the cost of college to grow so fast.

                In simple terms, they pumped more money into the system. For grade school, if private schools can charge families 10k per student, if you introduce 7k vouchers, then the schools know they can charge closer to 17k. It would be silly to not leverage the vouchers as a means to siphon government money

                • Neuromancer@lemm.eeM
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                  3 months ago

                  Students loans are separate issue unrelated to school vouchers. Since you can borrow almost unlimited funds, schools went to town hiring more unneeded positions and increased the cost

                  Student vouchers are limited in value. A school would only be able to charge the value of the voucher or the parent would choose public school.

                  • jacksilver@lemmy.world
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                    3 months ago

                    Most (I think all) school vouchers only subsidize the cost of private schools. Which in turn makes the situation more dangerous for costs to escalate. Unlike with student loans (which do have a hard cap), most voucher programs are for set amounts meaning schools can price gouge more effectively.

                    Obiousky I won’t convince you otherwise, but I would recommend reading more about how voucher programs, student loans, and equity in education work. Private schools certainly have their place, but education is fundamental to the well being of any society so changes should be taken carefully.

          • BobaFuttbucker@reddthat.com
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            3 months ago

            This is your opinion. ROI is uncertain, and at worst it moves tax money to religious schools, which is itself a violation of separation of church and state.

            I have no problem with people sending their kids to religious schools, but that’s not something government should be paying for regardless of which religion.

      • breadsmasher@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Are you implying that only those who attend private school are the future, and public school attendees are not?

        • Neuromancer@lemm.eeM
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          3 months ago

          Eventually we will eliminate the public school system with a variety of choices.

              • breadsmasher@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                Instead of government funding the education of the population (the current quality being a different topic) you would prefer all education to be privately paid for? In effect removing all education from everyone except those who can afford it?

                edit

                “a variety of choices” is just “private schools”?

        • jimbolauski@lemm.ee
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          3 months ago

          The cost per pupil for a k-12 education is almost twice as much in public schools vs private. Twice the money and half the results.

          Why do you want to waste money on a failing system?

          • SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            Do you have a source to back up this claim because it’s completely reversed from anything I’ve seen and I’d like to understand it better.

          • Neuromancer@lemm.eeM
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            3 months ago

            What is insane is the left says we should be more like Sweden. When you agree and say we should do vouchers, they melt down. We spend way too much money on education with poor results. Too much ideology in public schools and not enough education. Back when my kid was in high school; they kept going on about sex , gender and how republicans are bad. The school academics were horrible. We pulled her out and put her in a private school. Her standardized testing scores sky rocketed up. Best thing we ever did.

            • SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              Who has spoken about Sweden besides you?

              My kids spend more time with me then at school and they have a solid foundation and an ability to think critically, I’m not afraid of any scary knowledge they might learn from school, friends, the internet or any other source that I wouldn’t be able to control the rest of their lives and wouldn’t want to anyways.

              • Neuromancer@lemm.eeM
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                3 months ago

                The left never says we should be more like Sweden?

                Who said anything about scary knowledge? It’s the lack of focus on academics.

            • P00ptart@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              They don’t teach that Republicans are bad. They figure that out for themselves using critical thinking since they’re not indoctrinated with all that “god” bs in school.

              • Neuromancer@lemm.eeM
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                3 months ago

                Not that was an actual class lesson. Packed her ass up and sent her to a private school.

                • P00ptart@lemmy.world
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                  3 months ago

                  No it wasn’t. Just because you took offense to historical accuracy, doesn’t mean that there was some specific lesson plan to say Republicans are bad.

                  • Neuromancer@lemm.eeM
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                    3 months ago

                    Are you still fuming that we took your slaves away and that’s makes us bad people?

          • jacksilver@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            If there isn’t a natural monopoly effect. Look at utilities or Healthcare. Things largely dictated by location (and/or job) can’t support multiple offerings.

            How are parents who can’t drive their kids to school everyday going to take advantage of these choices? Vouchers/private schools will create a two tiered system.

        • Neuromancer@lemm.eeM
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          3 months ago

          Public school have become indoctrination centers for anti-American ideology. They focus less on education and more of incorrect ideology.

          Parents need a choice to get schools to focus more on education and not on unpopular ideology.

          What stops many people from sending their kids to a private school is lack of money. Vouchers will fix that problem.

          That’s why I sent my kid to private school.