from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs
Great, who determines ability and needs?
Some disagreements over the use of a garage between neighbors,
Sure, the garage scenario is plausible, but the bigger implications is what happens if someone decides they need my car, or my house, or my toothbrush more than I do? What’s my motivation to work, to earn, or to risk if the payoff is the same as someone who does nothing?
You say that no one would take anything from anyone, because there is no private ownership, but almost everyone privately owns their shit right now, it would all have to transition to your idea of “personal” non-ownership. So someone IS taking all the stuff from everyone, you just have a roundabout way of saying it, or you don’t understand the implications of what you are actually saying.
I never once said anything about someone needing something more than you do. I talked about actually using it or not. That is not hard to determine at all and it is also not hard to determine if someone has a genuine need for a house for example.
And no one every said anything about work not being rewarded. Seriously, read again what I wrote. I said the exact opposite… rents, inheritance and stealing other people’s personal property (by claiming it is private property) are means of withholding and extracting value without any work.
And you are again confusing private property with personal property / ownership. Yes everyone has personal property… that’s fine. No one is coming for your toothbrush. Don’t worry!
That toothbrush you have. I need it more. Give it here. I’m coming for the toothbrush.
But if someone else would come and ask if they can use it since evidently you don’t, there is not much you could do about it other that asking them to voluntarily reimburse you for your costs
Here you are, talking about someone being able to take a garage that I converted into a living space, because they need it more that I am using it. So yes, you did say that someone could take my stuff from me.
How would you genuinely determine need for a house? Who is going to build houses if someone else just gets to live in them for free? What’s the motivation for building houses?
And no one every said anything about work not being rewarded.
No, but it’s implicit in the quote from Karl Marx* that you sent me earlier. From each by ability to each by need covienently forgets about the efforts of each. Which is an inherent flaw of Marxism.
Woah woah woah there! I’m not stealing. I just really need that toothbrush, badly, and I can take it from you and I don’t have to pay you for it. I should give you some money maybe, but I’m certainly not legally compelled to, so I won’t. Didn’t you read anything you wrote?
Look, you are arguing a strawman, how many times do I need to repeat that personal property is not determined by needing something more or less then someone else, but by actual usage?
But sure, if you urgently need a toothbrush, and I am not actually using mine, you can have it. Totally free.
For what is is worth, I looked up personal vs private property, and it seems that the actual distinction isn’t usage, it’s portability. So, you would have a right to your toothbrush, car, and money, but your home, business, or farm would not belong to you. So if I wanted your house, I could reasonable make a claim that I needed it and “take” it from you. (Although it can’t technically be taking since you don’t have any ownership, and very few “rights” to the house.)
So, let’s follow that up with a question.
How hard are you going to work on maintaining or improving your home, if you know that someone else, who can’t live in their home because they didn’t maintain it, can just make a claim on your home, and have a reasonable chance of getting it?
The system you’re describing doesn’t make everyone free of economic violence, it forces everyone to be serfs for one giant entity (the country).
While you’re reading up on Marxism, and personal vs private property, go ahead and read up on what a strawman is, because you’ve accused me twice of building a strawman without merit, and I have doubts that you genuinely understand the concept.
Can you link to that definition? Because portability is definitely not the distinction between private and personal property. Usage is.
What follows is a pure strawman argument, because when you are using your house it is personal property and can not just be claimed by someone else.
I know perfectly well what a strawman argument is, and you have been doing it here the entire time. You must have extremely poor reading comprehension if you think I ever claimed anything of what you have been arguing against here.
If that description of personal property does not work for your individual consensus, please provide one (that is testable) for the purpose of this conversation.
Great, who determines ability and needs?
Sure, the garage scenario is plausible, but the bigger implications is what happens if someone decides they need my car, or my house, or my toothbrush more than I do? What’s my motivation to work, to earn, or to risk if the payoff is the same as someone who does nothing?
You say that no one would take anything from anyone, because there is no private ownership, but almost everyone privately owns their shit right now, it would all have to transition to your idea of “personal” non-ownership. So someone IS taking all the stuff from everyone, you just have a roundabout way of saying it, or you don’t understand the implications of what you are actually saying.
You are back at arguing a strawman 🫠
I never once said anything about someone needing something more than you do. I talked about actually using it or not. That is not hard to determine at all and it is also not hard to determine if someone has a genuine need for a house for example.
And no one every said anything about work not being rewarded. Seriously, read again what I wrote. I said the exact opposite… rents, inheritance and stealing other people’s personal property (by claiming it is private property) are means of withholding and extracting value without any work.
And you are again confusing private property with personal property / ownership. Yes everyone has personal property… that’s fine. No one is coming for your toothbrush. Don’t worry!
That toothbrush you have. I need it more. Give it here. I’m coming for the toothbrush.
Here you are, talking about someone being able to take a garage that I converted into a living space, because they need it more that I am using it. So yes, you did say that someone could take my stuff from me.
How would you genuinely determine need for a house? Who is going to build houses if someone else just gets to live in them for free? What’s the motivation for building houses?
No, but it’s implicit in the quote from Karl Marx* that you sent me earlier. From each by ability to each by need covienently forgets about the efforts of each. Which is an inherent flaw of Marxism.
That would be stealing. Did you even read what I just wrote?
Woah woah woah there! I’m not stealing. I just really need that toothbrush, badly, and I can take it from you and I don’t have to pay you for it. I should give you some money maybe, but I’m certainly not legally compelled to, so I won’t. Didn’t you read anything you wrote?
Look, you are arguing a strawman, how many times do I need to repeat that personal property is not determined by needing something more or less then someone else, but by actual usage?
But sure, if you urgently need a toothbrush, and I am not actually using mine, you can have it. Totally free.
Cool. I’m going to need your car too.
For what is is worth, I looked up personal vs private property, and it seems that the actual distinction isn’t usage, it’s portability. So, you would have a right to your toothbrush, car, and money, but your home, business, or farm would not belong to you. So if I wanted your house, I could reasonable make a claim that I needed it and “take” it from you. (Although it can’t technically be taking since you don’t have any ownership, and very few “rights” to the house.)
So, let’s follow that up with a question.
How hard are you going to work on maintaining or improving your home, if you know that someone else, who can’t live in their home because they didn’t maintain it, can just make a claim on your home, and have a reasonable chance of getting it?
The system you’re describing doesn’t make everyone free of economic violence, it forces everyone to be serfs for one giant entity (the country).
While you’re reading up on Marxism, and personal vs private property, go ahead and read up on what a strawman is, because you’ve accused me twice of building a strawman without merit, and I have doubts that you genuinely understand the concept.
Sorry, but I am using my car 🤷♂️
Can you link to that definition? Because portability is definitely not the distinction between private and personal property. Usage is.
What follows is a pure strawman argument, because when you are using your house it is personal property and can not just be claimed by someone else.
I know perfectly well what a strawman argument is, and you have been doing it here the entire time. You must have extremely poor reading comprehension if you think I ever claimed anything of what you have been arguing against here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_property#Personal_versus_private_property
If that description of personal property does not work for your individual consensus, please provide one (that is testable) for the purpose of this conversation.