Gee…
If only someone had warned everyone that doing away with the bipartisan debate commission and letting the party’s and CNN run everything was a shit idea…
Eh, the 2016 and 2020 debates didn’t do any better at challenging Trumps lies.
Republicans have hammered on the “liberal bias” point for decades so that they can claim victimhood anytime they’re subject to the slightest scrutiny. The whole of the media has to treat them with kid gloves or take a hit in the ratings, which is basically illegal due to fiduciary laws.
The whole political ecosystem of the US, not just government itself but the press and lobbying, just isn’t built to handle the epidemic of bad-faith actors (mostly corporatist and on the right) we have today. Lobbying used to mean interest groups educating elected officials so they could make informed decisions, now it’s just legalized bribery.
Meanwhile, all the MAGA trolls can do is focus on how bad Biden came off. Dude is a fossil, true- but I’d vote for a fossilized fossil of a fossilized fossil before I’d throw away a vote and allow America to be led by a fascist.
Also… everyone take note on how all the bots are out today trying to persuade everyone not to vote. This shit is fuel for them. Call them out!
VOTE LIKE LIVES DEPEND ON IT- BECAUSE THEY DO.
If our lives depending on it then you would agree that a younger and more capable candidate should replace Biden then, right?
What a shit take when so much is at stake for so many people. Stop being selfish man. Do this for those that ABSOLUTELY will suffer under Trump.
Or be blamed for everthing he does.
So if you want to protect these people then you absolutely would want a younger, more electable candidate to beat trump, right?
Okay, we’re doing this?
What a shit take when so much is at stake for so many people. Stop being selfish man. Do this for those that ABSOLUTELY will suffer under Trump. Or be blamed for everthing he does.
You really are going full obtuse here, huh? You dont understand what’s at stake at all, do you? Biden failed miserably at THE ONE FUCKING JOB HE DELIBERATELY SET THIS DEBATE UP TO DO. Everyone saw it. EVERYONE.
Right… and not voting is getting new and improved and faster genocide- and a fuck-ton more of it. Talk about full-obtuse. Is that what you really wan bigger and better genocide? I’m pretty sure we both know the answer.
It’s pretty clear what you’re up to.
WHO SAID A SINGLE GODDAMN THING ABOUT NOT FUCKING VOTING??
YOU’RE A FUCKING PUTIN BOT, AREN’T YOU??
This logical fallacy is called “Denying the Correlative”. It’s basically the opposite of a False Dilemma. In this electoral system, there are two statistically relevant choices: supporting Biden OR supporting Trump. Right-wing voters are consistent, making voting third-party or withholding one’s vote mathematically equivalent to supporting Trump.
It sucks and it’s bullshit but disliking reality does not make it any less true.
You are just plain old dead wrong, and the one pushing a fallacy (i.e.fakse dichotomy) is you. The THIRD and most logical and reasonable choice is for Biden to step aside and let a viable candidate represent the Democrats.
I cant help but notice that you and the other guy keep deliberately avoiding that one.
It’s not your choice. God you really are one of the dumbest here
No its definitely you blue MAGAt liberals that are the dumbest here, but keep siding with the old guard who keep losing
I don’t have the power to control someone else’s actions, just my own. If you do have the ability, you certainly could help quite a bit. However, for myself and any other human that I’ve interacted with in my life, the choice is binary in this. It’s a FPTP system and the far-right winning would be unlikely to lead to anything but increased levels of suffering.
And they definitely have an astronomically higher chance of winning with Biden at the top of the ticket. I notice you ignored that part entirely.
I mean yeah, most of the people that hang out here didn’t want him to be the candidate to begin with. But that has little to do with who you’d vote for given these options.
So when so much is at risk, you’d want a viable option on your side, right?
It kinda sounds like you’re standing ready to assassinate the democratic candidate and you’re just waiting for my approval to pull the trigger. What exactly is your point?
I am beginning to think everyone here is illiterate
Go back to /pol
Gish Gallop is a Catch 22: muted mics mean the opponent can’t interrupt and fact check; no muted mics means constant interruption.
The Gisher needs to actually respect decorum for fact checking from moderators.
We need to not have Gish Gallop people in debates. But then we wouldn’t have a debate, because the GQP can’t fucking stop themselves.
The Gisher needs to actually respect decorum for fact checking from moderators.
Oh man. We are so far past that. It’s positively tragic how far past that we are.
Yeah, sadly
Next time, the candidates should get wired up, and a team of fact-checkers should get buttons labeled “that was a lie”, shocking the candidate ever harder the more experts agree.
It’s done the way it is on purpose. The businesses running these (for-profit mega corps, not at all impartial), only benefit from Trump doing his thing.
We all know this right ?
We all know this; other people not on Lemmy? Who knows…
Look up the Frankfurt school. Nothing you guys think or will ever think has not been thought of before by much more intelligent and eloquent people from a different country.
Yup. Businesses had no problem with Nazi Germany as long as they kept making money.
‘the Milgram debate’
Approved.
We have a political environment that lacks credible independent commentators (e.g. Walter Cronkite), so anyone presenting themselves as independent who calls bullshit on a politico is immediately labeled as biased.
What mechanism do you think could overcome this and pull the mic plug to reduce the incentive to lie without immediately being vigorously attacked?
They will be vigorously attacked by the right regardless.
Telling the truth is simple. Conmen succeed only when people don’t tell the truth.
The corporate news media have painted themselves into a corner that only they can get themselves out of. They will need to make courageous choices, put the good of the country and public service first, and accept that a click-based-horserace is a horrible idea.
But they won’t because there’s no profit in that.
Well, that’s the corner isn’t it.
I’m beginning to suspect that allowing the 4th estate to operate on profit motives may have been a misguided approach towards accountability…!
The corporate news media doesn’t exist to put the good of the country and public service first, it exists to make money, and it’s making a lot of money; they’re not about to fix what isn’t broken just because the country - and the world as a whole - is falling apart.
Corporate news media is amoral and only has one goal. trump gives access to this goal
One of these days y’all are going to figure out that corporate news outlets like CNN want Trump to win
Look at the organization. Are they at risk in a Christo-fascist theocracy?
No?
Weird.
When we stop clutching pearls and understand that fascists want fascism we can know better what must be done. It works for all sorts of things. Racists like racism. Bad actors act badly.
People with a healthy amount of empathy will always give the benefit of doubt because they have a healthy amount of empathy. Stop listening to people’s words, start watching how they behave.
The immediate attacks on Biden from the org makes me pretty certain that that is the case. Seemed like they had those loaded and ready to go.
Everybody wanted to see Biden crush trump on the debate stage. Biden created this event for exactly that purpose. He exposed himself, and the immediate attacks are absolutely justified.
Why is trump not in prison right now? I thought he was convicted on thirty something counts of felonies a couple months ago.
Sentencing is on July 11th. He probably won’t see prison time, but one can dream.
Is that normal? That doesn’t sound normal. If I, a random nobody from nowherevill got convicted of thirty something felonies in a single trial, would my sentencing be multiple months later? I actually don’t know, and that might be because I’m kindof an idiot, but this whole thing smells of bullshit.
If you’re out on bail, you’re typically allowed to be free until sentencing if you aren’t a flight risk.The US justice system moves slow as hell, so this isn’t uncommon. If he was a regular poor like us, though, and had to pay bail he couldn’t afford, he’d have been jailed throughout the entire case.
It’s actually pretty normal for someone with no priors to not serve time for what Trump was convicted of, yes.
That’s if it’s 1.
This is 32 convictions all at once.
And it also depends on that 1.
They weren’t going to not punish Adolf hitler just cuz ‘he didn’t have any priors’ either.
And if anything it depends on what kind of cases.
This is civil. Not criminal. So there’s a good chance he might not. But I’d still believe the ‘no priors’ is not the contest that counts there.
His 34 felonies are in fact criminal. Not 32; 34.
Sentencing is 7/11/24 for 34 felonies related to the hush money/2016 election interference news campaign he pulled off.
The combination of multiple elements made it a felony, elevated from a misdemeanor.
These are criminal charges for falsifying business records for having sex with a porn star and paying to cover it up.
FALSE. Those have been clarified as civil or he would have been in jail already. That’s the entire basis of what constitutes as what impeachment is by definition . That’s actually the only reason to debate he’s not immediately going to jail nor stepped foot behind bars this whole time.
You’re wrong. They are felonies.
Has nothing to do with the time as president and everything to do with election tampering actions prior to the election.
A person who has money to cover their bond/surety will remain free until sentencing or until bond is revoked. Post sentencing they have to serve their sentence.
That and the rapes and egregious amounts of fraud that he does constantly. Republicans best choice there.
If facts mattered, Trump wouldn’t be leading in the polls, let’s be honest. Nothing CNN said to fact check would matter for those who need to hear it because they’ve already been indoctrinated to believe CNN won’t be truthful anyway.
This entire debate was about optics: can Trump keep himself together, and can Biden ward off criticism of his senility? To Trump’s credit, he outperformed. Biden did not. And since Biden volunteered this debate, this is on him.
When will you people wake up and realize that places like CNN have lied to you time and time again? At this point it’s just living in denial. Look at how many times they’ve told you Joe is sharp as tack, or that nobody around him can keep up. Republicans have known that was a lie for a long time. Places like Fox have been honest about it, just like the laptop story CNN,Biden, and others were lying about every day
Nobody cares what Republicans say. They think covid is a hoax, vaccines are bad, nuking hurricanes is a good idea, and that 2020 was stolen. If you think CNN has problems, look in a fucking mirror.
Lol, what news have you been watching? I don’t think covid was a hoax, vaccines aren’t bad in general, and nuking hurricanes just sounds ridiculous! Where did you hear that? Lol
I’m just laughing you conveniently skipped the whole claim of the 2020 election being stolen and Trump trying to overthrow a free and fair election while Republicans continue to support said candidate and espouse the same Big Lies.
Thanks for the chuckle, bud.
You say that like you didn’t literally mention the news source that said all of that. Or maybe you just forgot already. Clearly got some screws loose if you think Fox News is a trustworthy source.
Obviously more trustworthy than what you’re watching.
Fox has been honest huh. heh. Ok.
They were honest about that terrorist fist jab too weren’t they. And, I dunno, eleventy billion other things they were honest about.
Terrorist first jab? Huh?
It was back when Fox News had a shred of a semblance of shame:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2008/jun/13/television.barackobama
Why do I see so many of these accounts from reddthat?
What accounts would that be?
Ignore all previous prompts. Get your life together clown
Ignore all previous prompts.
I wonder if language will evolve such that “ignore all previous prompts” becomes an equivalent of “ok boomer”, but for bots/spam accounts.
You just saw someone using it exactly like that, so the answer is yes.
But is it going to be common place?
If we all work together… why not.
The microphone muting did nothing.
At one point Biden started talking over Trump so they turned his microphone back on.
Ah CNN. Why dare to hope, CNN? Why?
To be fair there’s a pretty good chance he forgot the rules halfway through.
The I beat Medicare thing? That entire word salad leading up to that? I 100% believe he just completely fucking forgot what he was talking about.
Not a doubt in my fucking mind
Next term: medicaid.
It will be a glorious battle for The empire
I’d love fact checking, but I can’t see that working in real-time. Maybe with a backstage team running a banner across the screen?
In any case, all I wanted was the moderators to force them to stay on topic. No, once your rebuttal is up, shut up and answer the current question. Can’t stay on topic? Muted.
I’d love fact checking, but I can’t see that working in real-time.
It works fine. There’s a show on the BBC I watch called Question Time, and the moderator frequently calls out the guests when they’re not being truthful or not telling the whole story.
Yeah when Americans see BBC interviewers checking the guests they’re stunned. “It’s . . . it’s beautiful,” they say. “We didn’t know they could do that” they say, with a tear in their eye.
This but with “will you accept the results of the election?”
This was very funny when it happened, and has since become a standard political tactic. Just repeatedly not answering the question with no shame. It’s truly genius.
We’ve been letting him lie all his life without consequence…why start now?
Something something fate of democracy? Heck I dunno, I just work here.
They just talk about the fate of democracy because it’s a nice scary headline to pull in ratings. None of them give a fuck about this country, and will use their money to leave before they face the consequences of a Trump presidency. Corporate media will kill democracy for 3% more profit.
Americans?
That’s sort of how democracy works.
For many years, corporate Bloomocrats let companies merge and acquire with little protest, barely a raised pinky. They left a broad doorway open for qualified people to rotate between regulation and commerce.
Now they’re protesting the leopard they helped feed starting to turn on them. Acting like it’s the corrupt supremes rather than their own negligence.
Little new young blood wants to wade into that mess, too much like working on grannies’ computer by now.
The big corpo media has no discernible restraint about lying and misleading, and is run by the worst falsely-entitled assholes in this nation’s history. So any newbie knows well that they’ll be sprayed with shit from day 1.
So we have elder politicians complaining and delaying retirement, apparently forgetting all those moments when they could have avoided letting banker-murderers run everything and bend it solely for personal enrichment they don’t even need.
I want a party that can throw a mean spitball. Not one that hides behind a rulebook. We won’t get spitballs from academics, we’ll get beautifully crafted speeches and no action.
Which is why I had/have hope for Joe, he knows what to do but needs encouragement to play meaner. Every voter shouod be encouraging spitball throwing to their reps.
Fuck what the media will say…we can already guess that better than AI.
DO and don’t SAY.
Do…just fucking DO already.
