“Night owl” sleep preference is a real thing and isn’t a choice (being largely genetic). Night owls forced to obey a daytime schedule suffer from what researchers call “social jet lag” because it constantly feels like they’re living in the wrong time zone. Here’s a 3-minute AsapSCIENCE video with more details for anyone interested.
Im not going to disagree with you, but i have this nagging suspicion that most people who think they are “night owls” are really just shining a phone light in their face every night and confusing their sleep cycle.
For some that’s definitely true. It’s well known that light (especially Edit: blue-to-yellow as per below) can disrupt someone’s circadian rhythm.
Wow you had that source fast… Nicely done
im aware too much light is bad but didnt they disprove the blue light thing?
Did they? I’ll have to look. I know reputable sources were talking about blue light specifically as of a few years ago, but science always changes so it’s possible. I’d love a link if you’ve got it, but don’t feel obligated.
i remember reading a study a couple of years ago but i wouldnt be able to find it again. in any case i still use blue light filters for the reduced eye strain and light amount at night.
Thank you for replying, because it reminded me to look for actual studies today :) Edit: If you want a TL:DR, I found this article which describes the study I found below in less technical terms. Basically it may not just be blue light that’s bad (supporting what you said), although using blue-light blockers and night modes is still a good idea.
I found this 2023 study that (via a lot of technical detail) basically says it doesn’t matter if the light is blue or yellow. The authors say theirs was a smaller study limited to 16 participants and shorter exposure times by budget constraints, but it supports what you said. If you scroll down to the last paragraph they say exposure to short-wavelength light (blue-to-yellow) should be reduced in the evening, and recommend phones, computers etc. have various kinds of night modes and that they be used.
So the summary seems to be that there’s a study that says blue light IS hard on sleep, but it’s not just blue light - it’s all light with more energy than red/orange light (i.e. the light you’d get naturally at sunset). It’s just one study and a small one, but that may be what you read and it’s a good starting point for further research.
thats exactly the one i read. thanks for sharing your research.
Night owls have been a thing since long before cell phones existed
The increase in people who can’t sleep because of cell phone usage at night has increased because of cell phones. This is a well known thing. No one is saying night owls didn’t exist before cellphones.
Or night owls just fuck a lot more than early birds, so we’re taking over the population
Conspiracy! You all will turn into vampires later…I saw it in that true blood documentary.
That may be true, but at least the genes for night owls are present in more people than the genes for early birds.
So it should be expected that, regardless of phone usage, over half of the population will go to bed and wake up ~2-3h later than expected.
If your timezone is closely aligned with the sun, that’d be 22:00-06:00 for early birds and 01:00-09:00 for night owls. But if your timezone isn’t, both of these times would shift around.
For me personally, no matter when I go to bed, whether it’s 22:00 or 03:00, I always wake up precisely 09:30 without any alarm clock. But this also means if I have to wake up earlier, e.g. at 8am, I’ll be very tired and not well rested.
I think you are severely overestimating how many people sleep till 9 or later. There’s no way it’s more than half.
Look at what times are peak traffic or peak public transport. Anyone with kids wakes up early. Most kids do. Anyone who has to be at school by 9 is up earlier.
9am wake ups are for people in their 20s till mid 30s generally. And only if you have a very understanding white collar job. Most blue collar workers and labourers are up much earlier.
I don’t think they were commenting on how many people can sleep late, I think it was a comment on what time people would naturally sleep to barring all other factors but genetics.
I am typing this in Wuhan, listening to birds singing in the middle of the night. Are they owls? No, their sleep patterns have simply adapted to the constant neon lighting all over the place.
Depression and alcohol can also negatively affect sleep patterns.
Combine depression with all night TV binge watching or phone soon browsing for a greaaaat combo.One can break cycles, though.
What’s life like in Wuhan? Haven’t seen any commenters from China on here yet
And definitely a lot of it is just that people have gotten used to it. People think they have insomnia because every time they try to go to bed early they can’t sleep but they’re doing it the wrong way. They should wake up early and go to bed when they start to feel sleepy and work on sleep hygiene (including even a short walk outside). It won’t be fixed in a day.
It also changed with age for me. And I feel like I also influenced it by getting to bed on time almost everyday, and putting away the phone.
So I understand that it might be very difficult, it was the same for me, and I managed to change it.
Still feel tired if I have to wake up before 7 am, no matter how much I slept, but that’s mostly avoidable.
You presented with the same visible symptoms, but we don’t know if your illness had the same amount of resistance to treatment
I was a night owl for a long time, literally decades. Then I went overseas, and since I came back I fall asleep by 9pm and get up between 5-6. I tend to agree with you.
Is it temporary?
I feel like you would adapt to the new time pretty quickly and then it starts all over again
We will see, but it’s been pretty consistent so far. I think it’s a bit easier for me than most people, because I can freely change my work schedule within like 6a-6p, so now I just go into work earlier and get out earlier. Sometimes I take a nap and still wake up before dinner time, and it’s awesome.
Night owls exist, I know because I’m one.
But this guy is full of shit. Friends rarely want to hang out at 10 am. Afternoon? Sure. Evening? Bet on it. But 10 am? Not so often. And if they do they know it’s early for you because they’re your friend.
Classes at 10 am? Goodness me, you poor soul. Every 9 -5 wageslave will shed a tear for you. (Yeah, I know. I’d prefer classes in the afternoon too.)
Meet your Gf for lunch instead, or go with her on the weekends a bit later.
And yeah. Fishing is often early in the morning. Make an exception for your friend or don’t go.
Society sucks demanding from people to be crisp and sharp at 8am. But I have a feeling we have some guy here, who likes to play vidiya games all night long and wants present himself as the victim.
Work 9-5
classes at 10 am
Fuck me T-T (nightowl, work 6am-2pm, have to wake up 4:30am…)
And when I had classes these fuckers began 7-8 am…
Can’t you just take a nap in the afternoon?
What’s even the point of a virgin GF? Is this some bizarre “look but don’t touch” fetish?
I mean, that is often how engineering school works out.
yes, the fetish is called patriarchy
It means OP is terrified of being compared to someone else. With a virgin, no problem : they’ve no idea how bad you are, really. Unless they have friends, of course.
That sounds exhausting. I don’t want to have sex with someone indecisive, much less someone who’s never done it before.
I mean, there is the lovely notion that as a happy loving couple, you’ll discover your way together. And really, I think that’s a great romantic idea. In theory.
Unfortunately it seems to fall over if you couple it with the “do not talk about it ever” sex education.
So many unsatisfied women out there just living with the “well, that’s my life now” attitude. It’s tragic.It also may fail when you’ve had more than once sexual relationship in your life.
It just means they want a girlfriend who hasn’t had sex with a prior partner.
So they want someone they can relate to?
It’s an ancient Islam thing.
It’s called being asexual and it’s not a fetish. Although some ace people do be wild
Ace here: no it’s not. Don’t drag us into incel-leanings, please.
Virgin ≠ asexual & vice versa.
Speak for yourself. I’m asexual and a virgin as far as genitals and orifices go. I’m a virgin partner and I’m answering someone’s honest question about whether people like me are a fetish. We’re not, we’re queer people. You want to call me an incel for being queer, fuck off.
I’m definitely an enthusiastic sex haver if we’re counting chaos magick tho.
What are you even saying?
Being in a relationship without having sex isn’t a fetish, it isn’t an incel thing, it’s a queer thing. As much as the other asexual in this thread would have you believe otherwise.
I think you’re a little confused about what it is they were asking. They weren’t asking if wanting to not have sex was a fetish thing, they were asking if seeking out partners specifically who have never had sex is a fetish thing.
It’s not the same thing as wanting to date an asexual, because not all asexuals are virgins (often due to experimentation and discovering “yup, I don’t like this.”) The reason so many people want to date virgins specifically is because they have this weird idea that taking somebody’s virginity is a sacred thing. Or sometimes it’s just due to insecurity, not wanting to have other past partners to be compared to.
Wanting to date a virgin isn’t wanting to date somebody and not have sex with them, it’s wanting to date somebody who’s never had sex before. Whether they will have sex or not during the course of that relationship is technically irrelevant, but most people seeking out virgins specifically unfortunately are expecting it.
I’m going to reply with the assumption that you are unfamiliar with 4ch×n, based on your wildly unnecessary aggressive reply.
You can be an asexual virgin.
My point was: not all virgins are asexual and not all asexual folks are virgins.
Lumping asexuality in with 4ch×n-speak of “pure virgin gf = best gf because non-virgin = whore” ain’t it.
I was not at all implying that asexuality was a fetish.
Nobody in this thread mentioned “pure” virgin gfs or said virgin partners are better than sexually active partners. I was answering a question that’s applicable to myself in a direct and literal sense by explaining my queerness. You responded with hostility, accused my queerness of being the result of an incel fetish, and used this other weird tangential thing to explain your actions while continuing to insult me. Did you at any point consider being nice?
Also you’re being really pedantic in a linguistically inappropriate way. You keep stressing the point that there isn’t a 1:1 relationship between asexuality and virginity. Nobody made that assertion. Somebody asked about virgins in relationships and asked what it was and I responded “it’s called being asexual”. That’s not a statement that every virgin is asexual, nor is it a statement that every asexual is a virgin. It’s a colloquialism establishing an explanation for at least one occurrence. You read superfluous meaning into something I said and proceeded to repeatedly I’m wrong about something I didn’t say. It’s mean, cut it out.
Morning people and extroverts have no idea there’s anyone else.
Anon should seek help to fix his sleep!
I solved this by working nights. Get in the habit of staying up until morning. Then you’re used to being awake at those times mentioned in the OP.
Interestingly, waking up on a pleasant warm afternoon mitigates some of the ick of waking up after insufficient sleep. Waking up at 5am to go somewhere sounds like torture. Waking up at 5pm to go somewhere is a piece of cake. You’d think your body would feel the same, if it got the same amount of sleep, but it doesn’t. The ick goes away on a nights schedule.
The true hell is trying to get sleep when everyone else is going about their days. Loudly.
Try turning your phone TV and computer off when the sun goes down. I’m not saying insomnia isn’t a thing. But if you’re just sitting in the dark or reading a book or something that doesn’t have bright stimulating lights you have a much better chance to fall asleep.
10am isn’t early by anyone’s definition.
Must not know a lot of people then.
Might be because you go to sleep too early.
Why is this getting down voted? Do people really think before 10 am is “early”.
I wake up around 12pm usually and I have to put an alarm for that.
What are you suggesting should be considered early?
I used to work nights 11pm to 7 am. Typically I would sleep noon to 8 pm. Regardless of my effed up sleep schedule, I still understood that “early” meant “early in the day”, and that whenever I slept wasn’t really related to what was considered “early” for most people. You’ve stated your waking time, bit not what you consider “early”.
For me honestly 10 is early. It’s like I can get up at 10 but not enjoying it. 11 is for me what for most people is probably like 8am. Waking up before that is torture. I think it should be up to everyone individually to decide what’s early for them but I definitely disagree with the original comment that 10 am isn’t early by anyone’s definition.
What do you think counts as early?
I used to work 11pm to 7 am. Typically I would sleep noon to 8 pm. Regardless of my effed up sleep schedule, I still understood that “early” meant “early in the day”, and that whenever I slept wasn’t really related to what was considered “early” for most people.
