Your vote for Dems is what endangers the vulnerable like those in poverty. You consent to wealth and income inequality with your vote, and can only blame yourself for not improving your country.
I did that in 2016 and it didn’t progress shit. It made it worse like it will if we do that this year. I organized and pushed leftists in primaries and I was beaten by “moderates.” Specifically, nobody had a chance against the incumbent. It fucking sucks but I don’t want a declared fascist putting more assholes on judicial benches or pushing anti-trans, anti-women policies.
I’m with you on both parties sucking. But please, grow up. If you want to help, do it before the nominees are set. And don’t drag others into your misguided principles.
wtf have I done? I already said. Organized and gotten people elected to school boards, city council, and our mayor too. We primaried for state and federal elections but didn’t get our candidates. We didn’t pout and waste our votes on people who had no chance of getting elected. We sucked it the fuck up and tried to make sure Republicans didn’t get elected.
I don’t believe you at all. Any person informed enough to do what you said knows voting for Democrats only makes out situation worse by consenting to neoliberal capitalism. None of the hundreds of people affiliated with the Green party I’ve met have said that, so you’re lying.
voting for Democrats only makes out situation worse
Tell me you’re not a pregnant woman who needs obstetric care of any kind or a capitol policeman or trans or Hispanic or a person who’s trying to get sick days from their union or a Ukrainian
by consenting to neoliberal capitalism
Yes, everyone knows that simply not consenting to the system suddenly makes it go away. Just ask anyone who’s ever been on a traffic stop – you just have to tell the policeman you do not consent, and all of a sudden, everything changes, and it works out better that you didn’t go along with the system.
If only the civil rights movement had been privy to this knowledge, they could have done their decades of work to make the system better much more simply and easily
Tell me you’re not a pregnant woman who needs obstetric care of any kind or a capitol policeman or trans or Hispanic or a person who’s trying to get sick days from their union or a Ukrainian
Dems can’t fix that or they won’t be able to run on it anymore. They have plenty of opportunities especially the super majority under Obama.
Yes, everyone knows that simply not consenting to the system suddenly makes it go away.
Never made that argument, bad gaslighting attempt. Green part hits even 5% and Dems start doing what you want.
If only the civil rights movement had been privy to this knowledge
This actually goes against your argument, civil violence was the only reason anything happened for that movement, and you’re advocating for voting for Dems and not getting in the streets.
It hasn’t though. Dems aren’t Communists, but they’ve moved slowly toward the left over decades.
Even if strategy A is a total failure, that’s no indication that strategy B will succeed just because it isn’t strategy A. That’s a ridiculous conclusion. It’s like saying “Bloodletting didn’t cure my cancer, therefore healing crystals will!”.
they’ve moved slowly toward the left over decades.
Absolutely false. Dems have moved to the right for decades since Clinton’s attacks on the working class with NAFTA. Obama called himself a moderate republican and governed like it. Read “Listen, Liberal” by Thomas Frank for a detailed description of this.
Even if strategy A is a total failure, that’s no indication that strategy B will succeed just because it isn’t strategy A
Then try it and see, that’s how it works. Instead you want to consent to the Democratic party’s right wing policies without getting any concession for your vote. ___
Yeah, we tried that, in 2016. We saw: Trump won, stacked the courts, dismantled public services, rolled back taxes on billionaires and shifted the tax burden onto the working class, dismantled pandemic watchdog labs which directly lead to the pandemic, and that’s just scratching the surface. How did Dems respond? Biden.
We tried it, we saw, it was an abject failure that played right into the hands of the far right. You’re either politically illiterate, or a bad faith actor trying to make the country mask-off fascist by splitting the left
We tried it, we saw, it was an abject failure that played right into the hands of the far right. You’re either politically illiterate, or a bad faith actor trying to make the country mask-off fascist by splitting the left
No, we didn’t. A pathetic attempt to vote for Bernie in primaries and then have him tell everyone to vote Clinton is not trying. Had he told us to vote for Greens it would be different. You’re coping so hard to support Dems.
Your strategy has consistently failed. You’re too stupid to realize that or you are working for the Dems.
Dems have moved to the right for decades since Clinton’s attacks on the working class with NAFTA. Obama called himself a moderate republican and governed like it.
So your assertion is that the arc Clinton -> Obama -> Biden represents an increasing rightward shift in the party, is it?
Do you know what would have happened to a self-described socialist who tried to get the nomination in 1996, or a Palestinian congresswoman who talked about “From the river to the sea” in 2008?
Read “Listen, Liberal” by Thomas Frank for a detailed description of this.
I genuinely started looking for this, because I was curious what it had to say, but then I reread how you summarized it and concluded I probably don’t need to.
So your assertion is that the arc Clinton -> Obama -> Biden represents an increasing rightward shift in the party, is it?
That is factual. Income and wealth inequality and all legislation allowing it proves me right.
Do you know what would have happened to a self-described socialist who tried to get the nomination in 1996, or a Palestinian congresswoman who talked about “From the river to the sea” in 2008?
Do you know what would happen to Biden if he went back in time and ran in the 1930’s? The workers would riot.
I genuinely started looking for this, because I was curious what it had to say, but then I reread how you summarized it and concluded I probably don’t need to.
It is a book written by a liberal like you who actually researched the Democratic party abandoning workers. You refuse to read it because it would hurt your feelings to know you’re wrong.
My interest is growing the Green party so it is in my interests to vote for her, and convince others to do the same so Dems will feel threatened enough to help poor people.
Hey wait a second that link only details democrats’ plans to beat 3rd party candidates in this election, not a plan to instill actual literal fascism, gutting environmental regulations, and ensuring that no one can reimpose those regulations for as long as this country remains this country
Hey wait a second that link only details democrats’ plans to beat 3rd party candidates in this election, keep third parties off the ballot because they are anti-democratic
You’re not a “raging leftist” if you vote for Biden. At least vote PSL or Green use a brutal domestic terrorism campaign as leverage to blackmail politicians into overturning first-past-the-post as part of a multi-prong strategy that, even as extreme as you are, still includes a pragmatic hedge in the form of a vote for the lesser of two evils
Of course nobody should be terrorizing anyone. What I’m riffing off of is a perspective someone shared that basically you don’t protest with a vote for a loser, you protest by agitating for systemic change.
In the meantime while the broken system is in place, you feed it a minimally shitty input.
Reasonable people can definitely disagree on this.
One thing that may be interesting to think about: some percentage of the time an argument is made disingenuously to try to siphon off votes. An entirely genuine recommendation of an identical strategy is fair – as I said reasonable people can disagree – but perhaps calls for some introspection.
It’s too bad when your strategy mirrors that of your worst enemy! So the far leftist could perhaps instead chain himself to legislators’ doors (vehement objection to the system) while consenting to acknowledge reality with a disgusted harm reduction vote for the marginally less-bad elderly man.
The best available choice isn’t always one that you want to make. It’s fine to hate the idea of voting strategically, I hate it too, but it’s naive to think you can positively affect the system by going with the option you want the most.
No, we can say with absolute certainty that (barring any issues with mortality) either Trump or Biden will win this year. I assume others will vote for those two for the same reason I assume that the sun will rise tomorrow.
ETA: I was right about the sunrise. Check back in a few months to find out if I was right about the president!
You’re not a “raging leftist” if you vote for Biden. At least vote PSL or Green
This post is about you, you idiot.
Your vote for Dems is what endangers the vulnerable like those in poverty. You consent to wealth and income inequality with your vote, and can only blame yourself for not improving your country.
What do you think happens if I do that?
Actual progress towards changing the Democratic party instead of consenting to it’s right wing policies that are enabled by your vote.
I did that in 2016 and it didn’t progress shit. It made it worse like it will if we do that this year. I organized and pushed leftists in primaries and I was beaten by “moderates.” Specifically, nobody had a chance against the incumbent. It fucking sucks but I don’t want a declared fascist putting more assholes on judicial benches or pushing anti-trans, anti-women policies.
I’m with you on both parties sucking. But please, grow up. If you want to help, do it before the nominees are set. And don’t drag others into your misguided principles.
Did your lazy ass do anything else?
Jill Stein is a good candidate in a historically weak election for the ruling class.
I’ve gotten dozens of people to vote Green in my state, what have you done?
“There are dozens of us.” lol
wtf have I done? I already said. Organized and gotten people elected to school boards, city council, and our mayor too. We primaried for state and federal elections but didn’t get our candidates. We didn’t pout and waste our votes on people who had no chance of getting elected. We sucked it the fuck up and tried to make sure Republicans didn’t get elected.
I’ve been looking through your comments and have confirmed you are a fake. Where can I see any evidence of your “efforts” to help the Green party?
I don’t believe you at all. Any person informed enough to do what you said knows voting for Democrats only makes out situation worse by consenting to neoliberal capitalism. None of the hundreds of people affiliated with the Green party I’ve met have said that, so you’re lying.
Tell me you’re not a pregnant woman who needs obstetric care of any kind or a capitol policeman or trans or Hispanic or a person who’s trying to get sick days from their union or a Ukrainian
Yes, everyone knows that simply not consenting to the system suddenly makes it go away. Just ask anyone who’s ever been on a traffic stop – you just have to tell the policeman you do not consent, and all of a sudden, everything changes, and it works out better that you didn’t go along with the system.
If only the civil rights movement had been privy to this knowledge, they could have done their decades of work to make the system better much more simply and easily
Dems can’t fix that or they won’t be able to run on it anymore. They have plenty of opportunities especially the super majority under Obama.
Never made that argument, bad gaslighting attempt. Green part hits even 5% and Dems start doing what you want.
This actually goes against your argument, civil violence was the only reason anything happened for that movement, and you’re advocating for voting for Dems and not getting in the streets.
Well, that’s just a bad argument.
Good day, sir.
Fake lefty trying to scrounge up votes for your capitalist daddy Dems
How did you come to that conclusion?
Decades of your strategy failing every time to move the Dems to the left.
It hasn’t though. Dems aren’t Communists, but they’ve moved slowly toward the left over decades.
Even if strategy A is a total failure, that’s no indication that strategy B will succeed just because it isn’t strategy A. That’s a ridiculous conclusion. It’s like saying “Bloodletting didn’t cure my cancer, therefore healing crystals will!”.
Absolutely false. Dems have moved to the right for decades since Clinton’s attacks on the working class with NAFTA. Obama called himself a moderate republican and governed like it. Read “Listen, Liberal” by Thomas Frank for a detailed description of this.
Then try it and see, that’s how it works. Instead you want to consent to the Democratic party’s right wing policies without getting any concession for your vote. ___
Yeah, we tried that, in 2016. We saw: Trump won, stacked the courts, dismantled public services, rolled back taxes on billionaires and shifted the tax burden onto the working class, dismantled pandemic watchdog labs which directly lead to the pandemic, and that’s just scratching the surface. How did Dems respond? Biden.
We tried it, we saw, it was an abject failure that played right into the hands of the far right. You’re either politically illiterate, or a bad faith actor trying to make the country mask-off fascist by splitting the left
False. The Libertarians got over 3x the votes of the Greens. We didn’t try anything lol https://www.fec.gov/resources/cms-content/documents/federalelections2016.pdf
No, we didn’t. A pathetic attempt to vote for Bernie in primaries and then have him tell everyone to vote Clinton is not trying. Had he told us to vote for Greens it would be different. You’re coping so hard to support Dems.
Your strategy has consistently failed. You’re too stupid to realize that or you are working for the Dems.
So your assertion is that the arc Clinton -> Obama -> Biden represents an increasing rightward shift in the party, is it?
Do you know what would have happened to a self-described socialist who tried to get the nomination in 1996, or a Palestinian congresswoman who talked about “From the river to the sea” in 2008?
I genuinely started looking for this, because I was curious what it had to say, but then I reread how you summarized it and concluded I probably don’t need to.
That is factual. Income and wealth inequality and all legislation allowing it proves me right.
Do you know what would happen to Biden if he went back in time and ran in the 1930’s? The workers would riot.
It is a book written by a liberal like you who actually researched the Democratic party abandoning workers. You refuse to read it because it would hurt your feelings to know you’re wrong.
Project 2025, stupid. Letting Trump win means no progressive wins again in this country. Anti progress.
Imagine thinking you’re defending democracy by voting for someone you don’t want. LOL
Wow, you can type the opposite thing that someone said and pretend that you have a point. How incredibly stupid of you.
What exactly is Biden’s plan to avoid letting a progressive win in the country ever again? Because Trump is the one with Project 2025.
Imagine thinking you’re defending democracy by voting for someone you don’t want. LOL
I, on the other hand, express democracy by voting for a candidate that I support, Jill Stein.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/dnc-war-third-party-candidates-rcna143290
But Jill Stein is not going to win, even if you vote for her. Voting for her works against your interests.
My interest is growing the Green party so it is in my interests to vote for her, and convince others to do the same so Dems will feel threatened enough to help poor people.
Hey wait a second that link only details democrats’ plans to beat 3rd party candidates in this election, not a plan to instill actual literal fascism, gutting environmental regulations, and ensuring that no one can reimpose those regulations for as long as this country remains this country
Did you even read the link you sent?
Of course nobody should be terrorizing anyone. What I’m riffing off of is a perspective someone shared that basically you don’t protest with a vote for a loser, you protest by agitating for systemic change.
In the meantime while the broken system is in place, you feed it a minimally shitty input.
The fuck? Just vote for third parties where did you get that bullshit from?
You consent to this system with a vote for Dems.
Reasonable people can definitely disagree on this.
One thing that may be interesting to think about: some percentage of the time an argument is made disingenuously to try to siphon off votes. An entirely genuine recommendation of an identical strategy is fair – as I said reasonable people can disagree – but perhaps calls for some introspection.
It’s too bad when your strategy mirrors that of your worst enemy! So the far leftist could perhaps instead chain himself to legislators’ doors (vehement objection to the system) while consenting to acknowledge reality with a disgusted harm reduction vote for the marginally less-bad elderly man.
Do you think being incredibly stupid is a prereq for being a raging leftist or something?
It is a prereq for voting for Biden
No, understanding how the voting system works isn’t stupid
You misunderstand the voting system because you vote for someone you don’t like.
The best available choice isn’t always one that you want to make. It’s fine to hate the idea of voting strategically, I hate it too, but it’s naive to think you can positively affect the system by going with the option you want the most.
Voting for someone you disagree with is not voting strategically, it’s voting against your interests based on what you assume others will do.
No, we can say with absolute certainty that (barring any issues with mortality) either Trump or Biden will win this year. I assume others will vote for those two for the same reason I assume that the sun will rise tomorrow.
ETA: I was right about the sunrise. Check back in a few months to find out if I was right about the president!
And in 2028?
Your lazy ass will be making the same argument. I will actually express democracy unlike you, and will work to gather votes for the Greens.