I always found that strange… The jedi were supposed to be the “good guys,” yet their entire thing was “you are not allowed to love or care about anyone or anything ever again.”
Seems kind of fucked up.
Edit: figured I would just put it in an edit rather than respond to each “it’s based on Buddhism” reply: yes, I understand that. But I don’t see Buddhism as something that is inherently “good” or “evil.” And I think most Buddhists would agree with that given the nature of the philosophy.
On the other hand, in the Star Wars canon, the Jedi are very explicitly “good” in a universe that doesn’t leave much room between black and white for any grey.
Maybe it gets murkier if you wade into the EU, but if I’m being honest, I don’t enjoy the series to care enough about any of that stuff. Most of which seems “retconned” in (there’s prob a better term for it) long after the original three film trilogy story wrapped up (and maybe the prequels, if A New Hope actually was planned as Episode IV from day one which I don’t think it was) later on to make the universe seem more complex than what was presented in the first three movies.
I don’t know a better way to describe it, but that stuff always just seemed like clever sci-fi authors who aren’t George Lucas trying their damnedest to flesh out a kind of boring (sorry everyone don’t hate me, but it kind of is when you get down to it), one dimensional, kitschy, soft sci-fi setting. I just have zero interest in any of it.
Ya should check out The Unifying Force Theory, basically says the Force has no inherent light or dark side, that it’s indifferent. The Force, through individual’s actions dictate whether they are light or dark, and within ourselves is the capacity for both. It’s kinda what the Sequel Trilogy was trying to go for with Kylo and Rey, albeit executed very poorly.
Funny enough, probably the most famous practitioner of this belief was Qui-Gon Jinn. It’s also why he never was elevated over the rank of Knight. He was considered unorthodox and a bit of a rebel by most Jedi then, who followed the more commonly held belief of The Living Force Theory.
Ya should check out The Unifying Force Theory, basically says…
I mean I’m glad this kind of stuff exists, and I’m never going to rag on someone for being passionate about a thing they like, but yeah I’d rather not spend time and energy learning about a fictional theory about a fictional (mystical) power that only exists in the universe of a kitschy 70s soft sci-fi series.
It’s supposed to be the same concept that Buddhist monks follow, or any monks for that matter. Desire leads to temptation, and temptation leads to corruption, so they swear off all worldly comforts and attachments.
Right, but I don’t see that as being inherently “good,” or “evil.” Whereas the Jedi are very explicitly the “good guys” in a universe that does not leave much room for grey.
Ok? Seems as though you missed the point completely. I wasn’t talking about the Sith, at least they seem honest about their powers.
So is the implication that the Jedi have to be “good” regardless of the fucked up things they make their adherents do, simply because the Sith are “bad”? Is that really how simple and black and white this shitty universe is? Bad guy exist, therefore the their enemies must be the pure and holy good guy. And as we all know, there is no room for grey in Star Wars. Just like real life 🙄.
Jedi are universally portrayed as lawful good and are basically just the complete “good guy” archetype. Yet their actual beliefs and practices are pretty fucking "evil "in many cases.
The views of the Jedi were written from one interpretation of Buddhism’s views on attachment, in that attachments inevitably lead to suffering. Though that’s probably more a mistranslation and I think it’s more “dependence” instead of attachment: it’s ok to have relationships and to love and care about other people, it’s just when your happiness or well-being is dependent on others or on some thing that suffering is the result. Though that’s just one view, and there are of course many, many interpretations.
The idea also exist in Catholicism that you can’t fully devote yourself to the way if you have too much attachment, hence monks and nuns isolating themselves and priests not allowed to marry.
I always found that strange… The jedi were supposed to be the “good guys,” yet their entire thing was “you are not allowed to love or care about anyone or anything ever again.”
Seems kind of fucked up.
Edit: figured I would just put it in an edit rather than respond to each “it’s based on Buddhism” reply: yes, I understand that. But I don’t see Buddhism as something that is inherently “good” or “evil.” And I think most Buddhists would agree with that given the nature of the philosophy.
On the other hand, in the Star Wars canon, the Jedi are very explicitly “good” in a universe that doesn’t leave much room between black and white for any grey.
Maybe it gets murkier if you wade into the EU, but if I’m being honest, I don’t enjoy the series to care enough about any of that stuff. Most of which seems “retconned” in (there’s prob a better term for it) long after the original three film trilogy story wrapped up (and maybe the prequels, if A New Hope actually was planned as Episode IV from day one which I don’t think it was) later on to make the universe seem more complex than what was presented in the first three movies.
I don’t know a better way to describe it, but that stuff always just seemed like clever sci-fi authors who aren’t George Lucas trying their damnedest to flesh out a kind of boring (sorry everyone don’t hate me, but it kind of is when you get down to it), one dimensional, kitschy, soft sci-fi setting. I just have zero interest in any of it.
Just my opinion of course.
Ya should check out The Unifying Force Theory, basically says the Force has no inherent light or dark side, that it’s indifferent. The Force, through individual’s actions dictate whether they are light or dark, and within ourselves is the capacity for both. It’s kinda what the Sequel Trilogy was trying to go for with Kylo and Rey, albeit executed very poorly.
Funny enough, probably the most famous practitioner of this belief was Qui-Gon Jinn. It’s also why he never was elevated over the rank of Knight. He was considered unorthodox and a bit of a rebel by most Jedi then, who followed the more commonly held belief of The Living Force Theory.
I mean I’m glad this kind of stuff exists, and I’m never going to rag on someone for being passionate about a thing they like, but yeah I’d rather not spend time and energy learning about a fictional theory about a fictional (mystical) power that only exists in the universe of a kitschy 70s soft sci-fi series.
I had heard the dark side was a twisted corruption of the force and sort of like a cancer
Yeah that’s The Living Force Theory, that the Force is inherently good and the Dark Side is a perversion of the Force.
I think it’s to prevent you from being coerced to do something you shouldn’t by threats to loved ones. If you are unattached you can’t be blackmailed.
It’s supposed to be the same concept that Buddhist monks follow, or any monks for that matter. Desire leads to temptation, and temptation leads to corruption, so they swear off all worldly comforts and attachments.
Right, but I don’t see that as being inherently “good,” or “evil.” Whereas the Jedi are very explicitly the “good guys” in a universe that does not leave much room for grey.
Lying, deception, and selfishness are tools of the Sith, which are universally considered evil.
Ok? Seems as though you missed the point completely. I wasn’t talking about the Sith, at least they seem honest about their powers.
So is the implication that the Jedi have to be “good” regardless of the fucked up things they make their adherents do, simply because the Sith are “bad”? Is that really how simple and black and white this shitty universe is? Bad guy exist, therefore the their enemies must be the pure and holy good guy. And as we all know, there is no room for grey in Star Wars. Just like real life 🙄.
Jedi are universally portrayed as lawful good and are basically just the complete “good guy” archetype. Yet their actual beliefs and practices are pretty fucking "evil "in many cases.
The views of the Jedi were written from one interpretation of Buddhism’s views on attachment, in that attachments inevitably lead to suffering. Though that’s probably more a mistranslation and I think it’s more “dependence” instead of attachment: it’s ok to have relationships and to love and care about other people, it’s just when your happiness or well-being is dependent on others or on some thing that suffering is the result. Though that’s just one view, and there are of course many, many interpretations.
The idea also exist in Catholicism that you can’t fully devote yourself to the way if you have too much attachment, hence monks and nuns isolating themselves and priests not allowed to marry.
That’s why Revan rejected both, declared they were both extremists, started The Grey Jedi, and became enemy #1 of both The Jedi and The Sith.