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anarchists siding with the bourgeoisie against the mean tankies, what else is new?
Well that’s new. For example in revolutionary Spain, an anarchist revolution made the bourgeoisie practically disappear overnight (though not via a genocide like Pol Pot has committed, which is laudable in my view), and it is in fact the Nation State apparatus (which the anarchists refused to seize, but unfortunately didn’t abolish formally) controlled by the communist party (supported by USSR) that reintroduced commerce and bourgeoisie in Catalonia as well as dismantled the people’s militias and forced women to drop their guns. This is well-documented in many works, including in George Orwell’s Homage to Catalonia or in Martha Ackelsberg’s Free Women of Spain.
we do not hide the fact that we are marxist-leninists
I appreciate that. I was simply pointing out that your articles are very poor: either no sources or very shaky sources. You could do a better propaganda job if you put your heart to it. Comrade Lenin would certainly be disappointed in your lack of rigorous scientific marxism ;)
Zapatistas are not anarchists, and they have been saying that for decades.
I know zapatistas do not refer to themselves as anarchists, they are “from below on the left”. It just so happens that most anarchists also are “from below on the left” (because that’s the very definition of anarchism) and therefore identify with the zapatistas, rather than appropriate their revolution. I think it’s also important to point out that it’s not me personally drawing this connection: the zapatistas movement has a strong support base in the anarchist circles across Mexico (Mexico itself having a long and complex history of anarchism), and has strong connections to the international libertarian communist (anarchist) networks as outlined recently by the zapatistas delegations visiting communities who struggle across Europe (in the ZADs, in the squats, in the unions, in the popular districts, etc).
EDIT: To be clear, the zapatistas movement does not collectively identify as anarchist, however some people from Mexico involved in the zapatistas movement identify personally as anarchists.
So to be clear: i’m not trying to appropriate the zapatistas revolution which is very specific to their local cultural and colonial context. However, i personally understand their revolution to be based on anarchism because it places the Commune front and center and explicitly refuses to build a Nation State. In making a connection between anarchism and zapatism, i’m not trying to rally zapatistas to a specific political brand because i don’t care about ideology so much as i care about praxis. On the other hand, i am fully trying to get people interested in anarchism to learn more about the zapatistas caracoles because i believe the socialist/communist/anarchist movement in the global north has a lot to learn from these communities and their struggles.
I know anarchists have nothing else to cling to
That’s wrong. Not that we have many successes, but anarchism is rising again on all continents. The corruption of political parties and the rise of dictatorial centralized States have led to more people criticizing the systemic aspects of oppression and how they are enacted/reinforced by Nation States. There’s a lot happening around the world and simply dismissing anarchist activity as “nothing” (just like the prolewiki article does citing only one anarchist example which doesn’t even have a link/source) doesn’t help your point against anarchism. For a major Nation-wide controversy involving anarchism in the past years, i recommend you do some reading on “Exarcheia” and “Rouvikonas” in Greece.
the movement themselves have had to put out press releases and articles explaining to please stop calling them anarchist.
Orwell was a colonial cop who later on kept a list of “crypto-communists” and “anti-white” personalities that he gave to the British gov. It’s come to a point where there are serious allegations he was an informant even during his time in Catalonia. That’s the kind of thing I mean by siding with the bourgeoisie. But I am not talking about the Spanish revolution, I am talking about you as an anarchist in this comment section, and more generally all anarchists I’ve met.
I appreciate that. I was simply pointing out that your articles are very poor: either no sources or very shaky sources. You could do a better propaganda job if you put your heart to it
What sources should we have decrying anarchism as what it really is? Any marxist analysis of anarchism will ultimately lead to that same conclusion, quoting someone about it would only be a formality. This backhanded compliment does not faze me or any of our editors; we are not here to appeal to anarchists, we are here as a proletarian encyclopedia. We are a handful of volunteer editors and do not have the means Wikipedia (which you seem to be fond of) has, nor do we claim to. Our recent changes page is filled with edits every day, we’ll get around to adding things to the article on anarchism when we get to it. Decrying it as imperfect and thus faulty does not solve anything; it is better to publish something viable than not publish at all.
Orwell was a colonial cop who later on kept a list of “crypto-communists” and “anti-white” personalities that he gave to the British gov.
I don’t know much about Orwell but he was a marxist not an anarchist so i don’t see the point.
But I am not talking about the Spanish revolution, I am talking about you as an anarchist in this comment section, and more generally all anarchists I’ve met.
Can you name one example in these comments where i’ve “sided with the bourgeoisie”? Or other anarchists for that matter? It’s funny to me because in the french political context the communist party is derided for being too lenient and siding with the bourgeoisie (the PCF is often working hand in hand with housing developers to gentrify neighborhoods, and as a whole they don’t promote abolition of private property anymore).
Any marxist analysis of anarchism will ultimately lead to that same conclusion, quoting someone about it would only be a formality.
So are you suggesting that anti-authoritarian marxism or libertarian communism does not exist? There’s plenty of those so why are you suggesting you have the only and ultimate truth?
we are not here to appeal to anarchists, we are here as a proletarian encyclopedia
Does that mean you can only get an account if you’re a unionized worker? Disclaimer: I wouldn’t fit in that category personally. I mean i don’t know about you but in my neighborhood/circles marxists are usually intellectuals from the universities while actual workers/proles tend to be of the “burn everything down” anarchist type who don’t care for leaders and nice words like they care for actual change. But maybe that’s because in France we have a much stronger history of anarcho-syndicalism with the CGT in early 20th century being the biggest union, all the while promoting sabotage, direct action and general strike.
Oh yes i read that one a few years back but it’s really far off from “the movement themselves have had to put out press releases and articles explaining to please stop calling them anarchist” (quote from you). It’s a piece asking western leftists to not try and fit zapatism into narrow categories including “anarchism and communism”, which would fail to capture the specificity of the struggle and would divide the movement on brand not practical concerns.
In that sense, i agree with that link: i personally don’t care if you’re a marxist or an anarchist (or whatever else really) as long as you are building power for the people, not “dictatorship of the proletariat” (or any other dictatorship really). That approach is common to the zapatistas who build/promote power from below no matter what your ideology/religion is, as the article argues.
Also worth noting: the article is an answer to an post saying we global north anarchists should not support zapatism because it doesn’t fit in a narrow understanding of anarchism. We could even say it does defend anarchist principles, or to quote the article:
In this light, revolutionary solidarity needs to take up the weapon of unflinching, merciless critique of all reformist, nationalist, hierarchical, authoritarian, democratic or class collaborationist tendencies that could undermine the autonomy and self-activity of those in struggle and channel the struggle into negotiation and compromise with the present order
Well that’s new. For example in revolutionary Spain, an anarchist revolution made the bourgeoisie practically disappear overnight (though not via a genocide like Pol Pot has committed, which is laudable in my view), and it is in fact the Nation State apparatus (which the anarchists refused to seize, but unfortunately didn’t abolish formally) controlled by the communist party (supported by USSR) that reintroduced commerce and bourgeoisie in Catalonia as well as dismantled the people’s militias and forced women to drop their guns. This is well-documented in many works, including in George Orwell’s Homage to Catalonia or in Martha Ackelsberg’s Free Women of Spain.
I appreciate that. I was simply pointing out that your articles are very poor: either no sources or very shaky sources. You could do a better propaganda job if you put your heart to it. Comrade Lenin would certainly be disappointed in your lack of rigorous scientific marxism ;)
I know zapatistas do not refer to themselves as anarchists, they are “from below on the left”. It just so happens that most anarchists also are “from below on the left” (because that’s the very definition of anarchism) and therefore identify with the zapatistas, rather than appropriate their revolution. I think it’s also important to point out that it’s not me personally drawing this connection: the zapatistas movement has a strong support base in the anarchist circles across Mexico (Mexico itself having a long and complex history of anarchism), and has strong connections to the international libertarian communist (anarchist) networks as outlined recently by the zapatistas delegations visiting communities who struggle across Europe (in the ZADs, in the squats, in the unions, in the popular districts, etc).
EDIT: To be clear, the zapatistas movement does not collectively identify as anarchist, however some people from Mexico involved in the zapatistas movement identify personally as anarchists.
So to be clear: i’m not trying to appropriate the zapatistas revolution which is very specific to their local cultural and colonial context. However, i personally understand their revolution to be based on anarchism because it places the Commune front and center and explicitly refuses to build a Nation State. In making a connection between anarchism and zapatism, i’m not trying to rally zapatistas to a specific political brand because i don’t care about ideology so much as i care about praxis. On the other hand, i am fully trying to get people interested in anarchism to learn more about the zapatistas caracoles because i believe the socialist/communist/anarchist movement in the global north has a lot to learn from these communities and their struggles.
That’s wrong. Not that we have many successes, but anarchism is rising again on all continents. The corruption of political parties and the rise of dictatorial centralized States have led to more people criticizing the systemic aspects of oppression and how they are enacted/reinforced by Nation States. There’s a lot happening around the world and simply dismissing anarchist activity as “nothing” (just like the prolewiki article does citing only one anarchist example which doesn’t even have a link/source) doesn’t help your point against anarchism. For a major Nation-wide controversy involving anarchism in the past years, i recommend you do some reading on “Exarcheia” and “Rouvikonas” in Greece.
I’m interested if you have a link to that! :)
Orwell was a colonial cop who later on kept a list of “crypto-communists” and “anti-white” personalities that he gave to the British gov. It’s come to a point where there are serious allegations he was an informant even during his time in Catalonia. That’s the kind of thing I mean by siding with the bourgeoisie. But I am not talking about the Spanish revolution, I am talking about you as an anarchist in this comment section, and more generally all anarchists I’ve met.
What sources should we have decrying anarchism as what it really is? Any marxist analysis of anarchism will ultimately lead to that same conclusion, quoting someone about it would only be a formality. This backhanded compliment does not faze me or any of our editors; we are not here to appeal to anarchists, we are here as a proletarian encyclopedia. We are a handful of volunteer editors and do not have the means Wikipedia (which you seem to be fond of) has, nor do we claim to. Our recent changes page is filled with edits every day, we’ll get around to adding things to the article on anarchism when we get to it. Decrying it as imperfect and thus faulty does not solve anything; it is better to publish something viable than not publish at all.
Here is the link you were interested in: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ejercito-zapatista-de-liberacion-nacional-a-zapatista-response-to-the-ezln-is-not-anarchist
I don’t know much about Orwell but he was a marxist not an anarchist so i don’t see the point.
Can you name one example in these comments where i’ve “sided with the bourgeoisie”? Or other anarchists for that matter? It’s funny to me because in the french political context the communist party is derided for being too lenient and siding with the bourgeoisie (the PCF is often working hand in hand with housing developers to gentrify neighborhoods, and as a whole they don’t promote abolition of private property anymore).
So are you suggesting that anti-authoritarian marxism or libertarian communism does not exist? There’s plenty of those so why are you suggesting you have the only and ultimate truth?
Does that mean you can only get an account if you’re a unionized worker? Disclaimer: I wouldn’t fit in that category personally. I mean i don’t know about you but in my neighborhood/circles marxists are usually intellectuals from the universities while actual workers/proles tend to be of the “burn everything down” anarchist type who don’t care for leaders and nice words like they care for actual change. But maybe that’s because in France we have a much stronger history of anarcho-syndicalism with the CGT in early 20th century being the biggest union, all the while promoting sabotage, direct action and general strike.
Oh yes i read that one a few years back but it’s really far off from “the movement themselves have had to put out press releases and articles explaining to please stop calling them anarchist” (quote from you). It’s a piece asking western leftists to not try and fit zapatism into narrow categories including “anarchism and communism”, which would fail to capture the specificity of the struggle and would divide the movement on brand not practical concerns.
In that sense, i agree with that link: i personally don’t care if you’re a marxist or an anarchist (or whatever else really) as long as you are building power for the people, not “dictatorship of the proletariat” (or any other dictatorship really). That approach is common to the zapatistas who build/promote power from below no matter what your ideology/religion is, as the article argues.
Also worth noting: the article is an answer to an post saying we global north anarchists should not support zapatism because it doesn’t fit in a narrow understanding of anarchism. We could even say it does defend anarchist principles, or to quote the article: