That’s not true. Imagine your friend is nonbinary. If you only believe in men and women, you won’t respect them, and you’ll perceive them as male or female. But if you believe in nonbinary people, you can choose to see them as their preferred gender. You want to call that a hallucination? I call it being a good person.
What’s wrong with my perception of nonbinary people? They do exist, and otherkin do, too.
The true debate behind “X do not exist” is not whether the people seeing themselves in this light exist (they obviously do), but whether we should take self-assessment as a valid criteria for defining those terms, or we should rely on another arbitrary framework.
So, essentially, it’s not a debate on existence of such people per se, but on how we should treat them. The rest is a set of semantic tricks to convince people of a certain position.
Objectively, there are people who consider themselves nonbinary/otherkin. Rest is politics.
Personally, I do not think treating it like an illness helps anyone or is in any way constructive, and am happy to treat people the way they want to be treated.
Huh, I didn’t expect you to accept otherkin. A realist who accepts otherkin, weird! You learn something new every day!
Alright, suppose my friend Saphira here is dragonkin. Now I will make my views on Saphira clear so that any counterargument of yours need not use a strawman. I believe species is a social construct, and Saphira deserves the right to interpret that construct’s relation to herself as she pleases. She has a draconic body on the astral plane, and we need to destroy consensus reality so that other people will perceive her dragon body instead of this fake and bad human body other people have forced onto her.
Now I wanna know what you think, realist. Do you believe that Saphira’s dragon body, her wings, and her fire breath are objectively real, and that a kinphobe who looks at her and sees a human is seeing something objectively false?
Okay, so the conservative who looks at your friend and sees a woman - is that conservative hallucinating? You said the only way to change perceived reality is physically or a hallucination. So the difference between your perceptions, are you saying it’s mental illness?
Second, conservative doesn’t change the reality of nonbinary people’s existence, he’s just ignorant about it. The objective reality of their existence still stands.
Ignorance, among other things, produces body of knowledge that does not reflect reality.
What’s the “objective reality” of this picture? Is it a rabbit or a duck?
You said everything has an objective reality, and refused to entertain the fact that gender presentation is a social construct, so I expect you to be consistent.
The alternative is having the choice made for you, and living in someone else’s mental constructs. And almost always, the person building your mental world is a rich capitalist who wants to control you and use you for profit and political gain.
The alternative is to recognize what the real world is like and why things are the way they are.
There are some mental constructs that we do operate in society - it is often ingrained that private property is inalienable, that money and not resources run the economy, that laws are the rules for the functioning of the world and not a set of reasons for triggering state-sanctioned violence, that the state itself is something more than a bunch of people building an incentivised system for everyone to behave in a certain way.
Those are important to dismantle - but we still live in a world that actually follows a lot of natural laws, and it won’t change simply because you decide to ignore them.
From gravity to laws of supply and demand, those are all very real, and you cannot ignore them - I mean, you can, but they won’t stop working.
The political spectrum is relative, there are no objective points on it. As a realist communist, you’re progressive compared to most people, but you’re conservative compared to a soulist.
And the argument that reality is real by definition holds about as much water as the argument that the Christian god exists by definition. You see, theologically Deus is defined as the personification of the quality of existence in the universe. What property does your argument for reality have that a Christian argument for Deus doesn’t have?
It is the fact that the very word “reality” expresses the combination of what is real, the totality of everything that is actually existent.
We may be wrong in our understanding of reality, but whatever the truth is, it is a reality.
If God actually exists, it is a reality. If He doesn’t exist, it is a reality, too. The actual absolute truth about the world is a reality. If you want to go beyond that, you land in the category of fiction, which, by its very definition, describes what is made up and doesn’t exist.
If you want fiction to be real, you face a clear issue with your semantics.
Oh, I see what the problem is. At the beginning of the thread, we were all using the colloquial definition of reality. You came into the thread using a highly formal definition of reality and thought we were all using that term. No, we weren’t. There’s no such thing as what, for clarity’s sake, we’ll call objective reality. It’s as nonexistent as Santa Claus.
Soulists can travel to other realities. http://soulism.net
What they said :
“Soulists can travel to other realities. http://soulism.net”
What I heard:
“Choose delusion or the mental anguish of reality”
Delusion is when a mental illness controls your reality. We want you to control your reality, not an illness and not society.
The only ways you can “control” your reality is either physically or by hallucinating.
That you call your delusions a “soul” is up to you, but don’t try to rope others into your mental problems.
That’s not true. Imagine your friend is nonbinary. If you only believe in men and women, you won’t respect them, and you’ll perceive them as male or female. But if you believe in nonbinary people, you can choose to see them as their preferred gender. You want to call that a hallucination? I call it being a good person.
If my friend is nonbinary, I’m confronted with a reality that they very much exist, and it becomes ignorance to think in terms of binary gender.
From that point onwards, not believing in nonbinary people’s existence is going against the objective reality, which is and always was singular.
deleted by creator
What’s wrong with my perception of nonbinary people? They do exist, and otherkin do, too.
The true debate behind “X do not exist” is not whether the people seeing themselves in this light exist (they obviously do), but whether we should take self-assessment as a valid criteria for defining those terms, or we should rely on another arbitrary framework.
So, essentially, it’s not a debate on existence of such people per se, but on how we should treat them. The rest is a set of semantic tricks to convince people of a certain position.
Objectively, there are people who consider themselves nonbinary/otherkin. Rest is politics.
Personally, I do not think treating it like an illness helps anyone or is in any way constructive, and am happy to treat people the way they want to be treated.
Huh, I didn’t expect you to accept otherkin. A realist who accepts otherkin, weird! You learn something new every day!
Alright, suppose my friend Saphira here is dragonkin. Now I will make my views on Saphira clear so that any counterargument of yours need not use a strawman. I believe species is a social construct, and Saphira deserves the right to interpret that construct’s relation to herself as she pleases. She has a draconic body on the astral plane, and we need to destroy consensus reality so that other people will perceive her dragon body instead of this fake and bad human body other people have forced onto her.
Now I wanna know what you think, realist. Do you believe that Saphira’s dragon body, her wings, and her fire breath are objectively real, and that a kinphobe who looks at her and sees a human is seeing something objectively false?
Okay, so the conservative who looks at your friend and sees a woman - is that conservative hallucinating? You said the only way to change perceived reality is physically or a hallucination. So the difference between your perceptions, are you saying it’s mental illness?
First, that wasn’t me.
Second, conservative doesn’t change the reality of nonbinary people’s existence, he’s just ignorant about it. The objective reality of their existence still stands.
Ignorance, among other things, produces body of knowledge that does not reflect reality.
What’s the “objective reality” of this picture? Is it a rabbit or a duck?
You said everything has an objective reality, and refused to entertain the fact that gender presentation is a social construct, so I expect you to be consistent.
Those words definitely are strung together in a way that creates a sentence
Soulists choose to build mental constructs to reside in, which is no different from any other imaginary worlds - essentially a form of escapism.
The alternative is having the choice made for you, and living in someone else’s mental constructs. And almost always, the person building your mental world is a rich capitalist who wants to control you and use you for profit and political gain.
The alternative is to recognize what the real world is like and why things are the way they are.
There are some mental constructs that we do operate in society - it is often ingrained that private property is inalienable, that money and not resources run the economy, that laws are the rules for the functioning of the world and not a set of reasons for triggering state-sanctioned violence, that the state itself is something more than a bunch of people building an incentivised system for everyone to behave in a certain way.
Those are important to dismantle - but we still live in a world that actually follows a lot of natural laws, and it won’t change simply because you decide to ignore them.
From gravity to laws of supply and demand, those are all very real, and you cannot ignore them - I mean, you can, but they won’t stop working.
Doesn’t matter how loud you conservatives say it, you won’t make it true. Reality isn’t real.
You are quick to label me a conservative. I’m a progressivist, communist, and scientist.
And reality is real by definition.
The political spectrum is relative, there are no objective points on it. As a realist communist, you’re progressive compared to most people, but you’re conservative compared to a soulist.
And the argument that reality is real by definition holds about as much water as the argument that the Christian god exists by definition. You see, theologically Deus is defined as the personification of the quality of existence in the universe. What property does your argument for reality have that a Christian argument for Deus doesn’t have?
It is the fact that the very word “reality” expresses the combination of what is real, the totality of everything that is actually existent.
We may be wrong in our understanding of reality, but whatever the truth is, it is a reality.
If God actually exists, it is a reality. If He doesn’t exist, it is a reality, too. The actual absolute truth about the world is a reality. If you want to go beyond that, you land in the category of fiction, which, by its very definition, describes what is made up and doesn’t exist.
If you want fiction to be real, you face a clear issue with your semantics.
Oh, I see what the problem is. At the beginning of the thread, we were all using the colloquial definition of reality. You came into the thread using a highly formal definition of reality and thought we were all using that term. No, we weren’t. There’s no such thing as what, for clarity’s sake, we’ll call objective reality. It’s as nonexistent as Santa Claus.
Okay but what can humans do?
Hey there are some human soulists. I’d say nearly 10% of us are human.
I travel to another dimension involuntarily every time I die.
When I finally realized what was going on, it finally ended my suicidal streak because I realized I can’t die.