Nobody said they weren’t, but they amount to the same problem in reality. I’m also tired of doing the same thing over and over and expecting new results. We’ve done it your way for decades and all they do is capture all leftward pressure and defuse it. Forcing our march ever rightward. They work for the owner class, not for you or me.

We’re in this situation because of your line of thinking. On average there are 40% of eligible voters that don’t vote, and that’s in the Presidential race only. It’s much higher for nearly all offices, outside of the ones we vote on every 4 years. I believe this apathy is brought about because these people see no value in voting, as it changes nothing meaningful in their lives. This isn’t to say that they weren’t better, but anytime they had to make progressive moves, they make conservative ones that benefit the owner class.

At some point it’s time to wake up and do something different.

Edit: Typos

I’m not depersoning them, their actions already have.

No it’s cool to bring those who harm innocents, or support those that harm innocents to justice and to enforce the social contract. MAGA/ICE is kidnapping people off the street for a 1k-1.5k bounty per person, and sending them to a concentration camp. They have violated the human rights of their once fellow humans. They sold their humanity for money, and fascism. They are committing unjustifiable violence and aggression on the population.

As such, they are no longer protected by the social contract. Anything they do, can now be done to them without it being considered immoral, or unethical.

Because of his mangled dick?

IMO, it was performative. I think the Democratic Party for the most part is controlled opposition for the owner-class. It’s foolish to continue to support them, or really any facet of this oppressive government.

Clean 'em all out and let’s build anew.

Actually easy. Those who break the social contract are no longer protected by it. ICE/MAGA/Republicans have broken this social contract and now it’s moral to target them. Glad I could help clear that up for you.

I’m sorry, I guess my initial reply was too many words to be understood fully. So I’ll be more succinct.

**Something horrifically dramatic has already happened, it’s already time for us to use our 2A rights for communal self defense. **

Otherwise I agree with what you just said, but I felt like you missed my point, so I wanted to say it in no uncertain terms.

I mean that’s how the civil rights movement succeeded here in the US. I know we get a heavily sanitized version basically reduced to “I have a dream” but the Black Panthers and Malcolm X were extremely active and militarized. It was either deal with MLK’s peace movement or deal with Malcolm X and the Black Panthers.

Thank you for posting what I’ve wanted to convey about that study. Mixed strategy movements are the ones with true success. The civil rights movement did not succeed on MLK’s back alone. Malcolm X and the Black Panthers becoming militarized is why the U.S. government started thinking about extending an olive branch. Well that and the RIOTS after Dr. MLK was assassinated by the FBI. And those riots were not “peaceful”.

It is though. The rich don’t want their livestock exterminated but brought to heel. Occupation happens with boots on the ground, infantry. That means small arms, drones, and ground vehicles. Not nukes, missiles, or bombs.

Also the populace out numbers the military by HUGE margin. No force is strong enough in manpower to overcome a civilian population in a state of resistance. The US military also sucks at asynchronous warfare. Or have we already forgotten our last 20year war in the Middle East?

How is people being disappeared to concentration camp not already horrifically dramatic?

How is elected officials being arrested for asking for a warrant, or asking questions not already horrifically dramatic?

How is sending our own military and arresting civilians in L.A. not already horrifically dramatic?

Where the fuck is your line?

Didn’t they already send in the national guard and marines into L.A.? I don’t think he feels the need to wait for us to actually start shooting these thugs.

Removed by mod

Then you need to work on your reading comprehension.

It’s not based on a vibe, it’s literally written down as part of our Declaration of Independence. It’s a part of our Bill of Rights, It’s a part of The Constitution, and in some cases our state constitutions.

Yours and others ignorance of their natural rights, and the places they are codified doesn’t excuse the breaking of this social contract. ICE and ICE collaborators have broken this social contract, and are no longer protected by it.

Friend, you may want to actually read the “Screed”. You’ll see I was agreeing with you, and pointing out that it’s down to us the people, that “legality” doesn’t matter at all.

But go off I guess, lol.

Actually an organized militia isn’t needed. As the bill of rights is just a small enumeration of our natural rights, and does not include all of them. They are solely there to remind the populace what our rights are even in the face of a tyrannical government. Funny enough your arguments now are why James Madison didn’t want a bill of rights included as he felt that Natural Rights were too numerous to list, and people would think themselves limited to only the enumerated powers or confuse them into thinking the government granted them those rights. When, in fact, those rights are inherent to our very being.

Some Relevant reading:

" When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. "

-The Declaration of Independence.

So important they wrote it down, and signed it. (Broke it up for readability)

I certainly wouldn’t find anybody shooting an ICE “agent” as guilty if I was on the Jury, regardless of what a judge might say. Jury Nullification is an important right that every U.S. Citizen should know about, but never talk about inside a court house.

I refuse to put away people defending their community from a gestapo like force, regardless of the events surrounding said gestapo’s death.

Same rules as when you see a young mom/dad steal diapers and baby food.

No, you didn’t.

The 2nd Amendment isn’t about legality, as much as a small enumeration of our natural rights. James Madison was against including a Bill of Rights because he felt that an actual list of rights was far too numerous, and had to be talked round to including a portion of the most important rights to be written down.

It’s written down for us, the people, the citizens. It’s to remind us that we have inalienable rights that cannot be taken from us by a tyrannical government, big or small. That we have these rights inherent to our very being.

From the Declaration of Independence:

" When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. "

(Broke it up for readability)

My point with this is that the only defense that matters at this section of time is social defense. If I end up on the jury for someone who shot someone who was masked up as ICE. In no way would I ever consider them guilty, regardless of the events. It is socially acceptable in my eyes to kill an individual in a gestapo like organization. That’s just self defense/defense of a third party, as they represent an actual threat, even if an individual’s current actions aren’t threatening.

"WHEN in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation.

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security." - The United States Constitution.

I would also suggest reading the bill of rights, and James Madison’s arguments on natural rights, and why he felt The Bill of Rights was both unnecessary and damaging to human rights overall because there were too many to list.

To get you started here the wiki on bill of rights, you can use the links and sources at the bottom to confirm the information.

Please educate yourself. If you’re incapable, get a tutor that isn’t AI.

Your opponent is correct, we are within our INALIENABLE RIGHTS to defend ourselves from a criminal government organization. So important our founding fathers made sure to write it down and sign it.

Personally I socially consent to ICE being gun downed, and considered those who do it Heroes. ICE is disappearing people to a concentration camp in El Salvador. They are attacking the populace(That’s you and me included) and any violent acts against them are inherently self defense as they are proven threats. Fuck collaborators and those that would side with them regardless of “legality”.