An evil man who’s job is to communicate the position of an incoherent babbling hateful child rapist convict who steals from children’s charities. A bad faith actor. Who doesn’t honour his own deals.

He can go home. There is nothing for him to do in Canada.

It’s a great idea. Pretty soon it will catch on.

there are ways forward without mass deaths.

What are they? You get really vague here, presumably on purpose.

I propose mass not-births as part of the answer of degrowth. Anyone that proposes anything unsustainable is the one calling for mass deaths.

doomer posts about the climate that I know by heart already.

Here is a fact. For roughly ever degree of of Global Average Temperature above our pre-industrial average we lose about 10% of global food production. How are we feeding everyone again? 2024 hit 1.5°C and we’re on track for 2.5 to 3.5C at least. What are we all eating?

I repeat that I encourage you to read other angles of the problem and our situation and stop praying for calamity to make life better, it’s nihilistic and kind of dumb.

I’m sorry unpleasant truths couldn’t be delivered with a happier, more cheerful messaging. For what it’s worth, skulls are always smiling.

Again, your type is always disapointing. You can only mischaracterise what we say because you can’t discuss rationally. “Praying for calamity” tells me you have not listened or understood anything being discussed.

We are done here.

Meanwhile, we can handle our population load and a lot more, we have more than enough land and space and production capacity.

No we don’t. Most of earth’s wildlife has been converted to human biomass or our food in the 6th great mass extinction. There are virtually no wild places left. Your body is full of microplastics, PFAS and and an ungodly cocktail of other bullshit. This shit is in the rain, from pole to pole. The whole thing has an insatiable apetite for finite resources and is powered by non-renewables. We have pushed past 7 of 9 planetary boundaries. This is the scientific way of saying we’re fucked unless we can figure out how to live within our means fast. Scientists are saying we are deep in crisis and you casually blather than we can hold everyone and more. We can’t. We can’t hold what we have now. Sure we could rebalance wealth to end excesses of the rich and poverty, but unless you get consumption and waste way, way down, its still cataclysmic destruction of the biosphere.

Deserted cities are indeed a long term consequence of degrowth. Land will be reserved for wildlife to flourish unmolested again and instead of continually mining virgin lands for resources we can mine our former abandoned cities while we work out the details of a recyclable, circular economy.

Unsustainability is condeming countless numbers and future generations to death, and possibly extinction.

If you have any better plan for sustainability let’s hear it.

This is a really disastisfying discussion. You can’t see how degrowth has everything to do with daycare prices and birthrates, so I can only assume you are new to the concept and haven’t bothered a cursory glance to wikipedia.

In the same breath, you post how you don’t like metaphores meant to characterize arguments to lay people.

I think we’re done here.

I don’t think you understand sustainability. Fewer people need fewer antibiotics. Fewer mines, less waste, less infrastructure etc…

We are not anywhere near sustainable right now. We have grossly exceeded our planetary boundaries.. Having exceeded our planetary boundaries puts us in a state of ecological overshoot.. The concept is not well understood outside of ecology circles, but it means a clock is ticking. Every day that we aren’t in equilibrium with our environment is a day that the environment degrades. Our bodies are full of microplastics and PFAS while the climate is rapidly changing and biodiversity is dropping rapidly. It’s hapening now, but in slow motion compared to human perceptions.

Human civilization is in an existential crisis. Any potential window for managing this crisis is rapidly closing. I have yet to hear any other credible means to address this crisis that is not a thinly veiled attempt of the rich and powerful to hold onto the system that made them rich and powerful.

The scientists used to scream for change. Now they cry because money buys billionaires an outsized voice compared to the quality of their arguments.

Edit: Anti-natalist is also likely a disingenuous mischaracterization. Degrowth is about fewer births, not no births, just until we fit our environment then stabilize. Detractors who can’t engage honestly to the discussion love to use misleading terms. I hope this isn’t you.

But the conversation wasn’t about models of ownership or economic modalities. Nothing I said is invalidated by capitalism, socialism, communism, democracy, authorotarianism etc… Degrowth is a simple, known method that is ethical and requires no magical thinking of hail-mary techno-inventing some just-out-of-reach-but-never-quite-here technology that all the growth based schools of thought seem to depend on. It works under any modality.

Let a little air out of the balloon before it pops. Not complicated.

Is it impossible for you to just imagine smaller? No one is talking about knocking down key foundations and toppling systems, just building a smaller civilization with a circular economy that preserves the living systems on earth, while maximizing well being. The movement is called Degrowth. It’s goal is sustainability.

Chopping off limbs? No. Degrowth is just the opposite of growth, a gradual ethical reduction of people and consumption until we fit on our planet. I say ethical because the principle mechanism is just having less kids. No one killed, just fewer born. Those people not born don’t consume and we are closer to our goal. Sustainability is much much easier when you aren’t blowing past limits.

Privatization isn’t specialization.

Nobody is saying this but you. I was clear and said specialization.

We don’t have to live this way. But we will if we continue to let billionaires bully us.

I agree that there are a million better ways to organize civilization. Our current path is dystopia then extinction. It would be good to do better. Having more children on a planet going through an anthropogenic 6th great mass extinction is probably not the good move we’re looking for.

It should be to eat the fucking rich.

We agree on something.

As to the rest, the days of large families where some grandparent or aunt can take care of your kids is long gone. My grandparents had 7 kids. My parents 3. 1 or 2 for my gen and I expect my kids will have none. Not by choice, just priced out of household formation. My family are too busy taking care of their family to take care of mine. It’s odd that you just assume you can impose on family like that and take it for granted without respect for their decisions.

It’s also odd that your vision of a world would deny labour specialization that drives people to move where their specialized jobs are. Without specialization, our economy would collapse.

The world you dream of is long gone and can’t come back until a couple of generations of rapid degrowth. Degrowth only happens when a great many of us stop having children for a while, until our numbers are back in check with our environment.

It’s not me. The dog buys and makes her own. I keep telling her to stop her daily cup habit, but teenagers, whaddya gonna do?

It’s such a sprawling conversation, it’s difficult to capture it all concisely. I would like to add to your comment, the number of Cambridge Analytica style bots and disingenuous agents. Plus all the dummies who mindlessly parrot them.

There was a time where I would try to meaningfully engage with anyone to gain a wider perspective, being conscious of filter bubbles, but dissenting voices were always void of substantive reasoning, logic or fact. It was almost always disingenuous, spurrious fallacies.

Now I only engage with people who disagree and put up some evidence of consciousness and reasoned arguments up front. A well documented technique in online debate/disinformation is exhaustion. Control the narrative via flooding all chanels with bullshit, and the power of short simple repetition until lies become truth.

Edit: Exhibit A is the dumpster fire that is the Fascist States of America and the rise of the tech lords. AI only further serves to control the narrative.

Raspberry Pi’s fit this bill.

Dr. Pippa Malmgren, an economist wrote a book called Signals.

I’ll give you the gist of the book, in the context of this article; this is everybody’s signal to not have children.

I think the ICIJ should provide a style guide to writing where countries like China and the US always have the term “court” in quotation marks. Courts are a function of the rule of law. China and the US have no rule of law. Therefore the “court” (their term not mine) has ruled against a journalist doing the things journalists do.

(Edited for bullshit) No CNS tissues clearly. Follow the guide, obviously.

Ah yes. The Lemmy.ml troll has things to say. Important things.

That’s not a wizard staff, he just rubs the sharp crystal on his poisoned skin then pokes people with it.

He yells “I cast poison poke!”

Airstrike on a refuge camp. Words I never thought to see together.