Something that has been SEO’d for Google is still going to feature prominantly on ddg or bing. There are other reasons to switch off Google, but seo isn’t going to stop being a problem.
I started using Kagi. By paying for the search engine, at least I can ensure the search engine’s goals align with mine, instead of with whoever pays most for advertisement.
I haven’t used it for a long time yet, but so far I’m satisfied with its results!
I’ve been using Kagi for about half a year now, and I’ve definitely been very happy with it. As you pointed out, the fact that you pay for it with actual money and not with your attention (ie. ad views) means that they actually have an incentive to show you good results instead of endless walls of spammy links that lead to pages using their ad network.
People don’t seem to realize that Google’s not a search engine company with an ad network, but an ad network company with a search engine: the ads pay for all of Google’s services, so they’re incentivized to fill your search results with bullshit that you have to dig through, but that uses their ad network – every useless spam link you have visit when looking for the thing you actually searched for means more 💰 for Google.
The fact that so many big online services are ad-funded has led to the situation where people seem to believe that we’re entitled to have everything for free online. While open source projects run by volunteers are definitely a thing (as is obvious considering where we are), I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that every online service should have rely on voluntary donations and volunteer work, and that developers should work on your free pet service during their time off from their actual work
Hate to bust your bubble but Kagi is just a fancy meta search engine that still uses bing,google and a few others for its queries. Its not a real search engine in its own right. A good searxng instance like https://paulgo.io will give you similar results without paying 10$ a month for it.
Support people who host these free and open source services out of pocket with donations. Not yet another business offering yet another subscription. Promising ‘were not like those other guys, for reals jut trust us’ while not being able to gaurentee they won’t turn into greedy bastards and start whittling your user rights/rolling in the ads later.
It doesn’t really matter to me if they use their own crawler or use results from another search engine. What matters to me is the results i’m seeing for my search queries.
And if they “roll in the ads later” or the service deteriorates, I can still switch to another search engine.
No need for “just trust us”, if you can just compare the product yourself🤷♂️
I hope that if that day comes you may consider trying out some searxng instances, as they do probably give similar results as kagi as both pool results from the same true search engines. I am so fustrated that we are at a point where people feel the need to pay 120$ a year for something that has been a staple of the free as in freedom internet forever, especially when things like SearXNG exist.
But no solution is really free. Either you pay directly (Kagi), or it is paid through ads (Google) or it is some free open source solution, which then is paid through the time people put into it in their free time and in that case there should be donations or contributions as well, at least from people who can afford it. 🤷♂️
Its the third option, and no while nothing in computer infrastructure is ever truly free as theres always operational+maintenance cost as well as dev time and setup time, when nothing is at cost to the end user and the hosting provider isn’t trying to make a profit off their information then I consider it good grounds to it a ‘free’ service. I actually just posted a guide to alternative search engines over at [email protected] , you may find it an interesting read.
How on earth does paying for a service mean someone’s “being taken advantage of”? You do realize that Google, Bing et al aren’t actually free? The whole problem with eg. Google is the fact that they’re an ad company with a search engine and not the other way around, which creates perverse incentives to show you bullshit results as long as it means more ad views for them (and they control both the supply and demand side of that ad network, which makes it even worse). That’s literally the reason why Google’s results have gotten so bad.
While I’d love to live in an economic system where people could just build good web search engines for free and on a volunteer basis, unfortunately we don’t find ourselves in such a system at this time. I’d rather pay for a search service than use one that’s incentivized to not show me what I’m searching for, and I’d also rather pay for developer time than assume that they’ll work on services for free during their time off (which is the reality with eg. Lemmy admins)
I don’t have a ton of experience with it yet, but I don’t have to scroll through a bunch of actual ads, followed by a bunch of not-really-but-basically-still ads, before finding what I’m looking for.
I’m paying for the service, not because I just fell for their marketing, but because I actually have the impression of getting noticeably less “polluted” results, especially when searching for something easily advertisable (e.g. “best X to buy 2023”).
I don’t need to convert anyone else. Everyone can just try it themselves and judge whether they feel it’s worth their money or not. As of now, for me it seems to be the case.
Does anyone ever talk about how we can fix it?
Use different services.
We’re already in the process of fixing it by using Lemmy instead of reddit.
Something that has been SEO’d for Google is still going to feature prominantly on ddg or bing. There are other reasons to switch off Google, but seo isn’t going to stop being a problem.
I started using Kagi. By paying for the search engine, at least I can ensure the search engine’s goals align with mine, instead of with whoever pays most for advertisement. I haven’t used it for a long time yet, but so far I’m satisfied with its results!
I’ve been using Kagi for about half a year now, and I’ve definitely been very happy with it. As you pointed out, the fact that you pay for it with actual money and not with your attention (ie. ad views) means that they actually have an incentive to show you good results instead of endless walls of spammy links that lead to pages using their ad network.
People don’t seem to realize that Google’s not a search engine company with an ad network, but an ad network company with a search engine: the ads pay for all of Google’s services, so they’re incentivized to fill your search results with bullshit that you have to dig through, but that uses their ad network – every useless spam link you have visit when looking for the thing you actually searched for means more 💰 for Google.
The fact that so many big online services are ad-funded has led to the situation where people seem to believe that we’re entitled to have everything for free online. While open source projects run by volunteers are definitely a thing (as is obvious considering where we are), I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that every online service should have rely on voluntary donations and volunteer work, and that developers should work on your free pet service during their time off from their actual work
Hate to bust your bubble but Kagi is just a fancy meta search engine that still uses bing,google and a few others for its queries. Its not a real search engine in its own right. A good searxng instance like https://paulgo.io will give you similar results without paying 10$ a month for it.
Support people who host these free and open source services out of pocket with donations. Not yet another business offering yet another subscription. Promising ‘were not like those other guys, for reals jut trust us’ while not being able to gaurentee they won’t turn into greedy bastards and start whittling your user rights/rolling in the ads later.
It doesn’t really matter to me if they use their own crawler or use results from another search engine. What matters to me is the results i’m seeing for my search queries. And if they “roll in the ads later” or the service deteriorates, I can still switch to another search engine.
No need for “just trust us”, if you can just compare the product yourself🤷♂️
I hope that if that day comes you may consider trying out some searxng instances, as they do probably give similar results as kagi as both pool results from the same true search engines. I am so fustrated that we are at a point where people feel the need to pay 120$ a year for something that has been a staple of the free as in freedom internet forever, especially when things like SearXNG exist.
Maybe I will take a look at that, why not?
But no solution is really free. Either you pay directly (Kagi), or it is paid through ads (Google) or it is some free open source solution, which then is paid through the time people put into it in their free time and in that case there should be donations or contributions as well, at least from people who can afford it. 🤷♂️
Its the third option, and no while nothing in computer infrastructure is ever truly free as theres always operational+maintenance cost as well as dev time and setup time, when nothing is at cost to the end user and the hosting provider isn’t trying to make a profit off their information then I consider it good grounds to it a ‘free’ service. I actually just posted a guide to alternative search engines over at [email protected] , you may find it an interesting read.
Yikes.
What’s “yikes” about that?
It sounds like you’re being taken advantage of without realizing it and trying to get others to do the same.
How on earth does paying for a service mean someone’s “being taken advantage of”? You do realize that Google, Bing et al aren’t actually free? The whole problem with eg. Google is the fact that they’re an ad company with a search engine and not the other way around, which creates perverse incentives to show you bullshit results as long as it means more ad views for them (and they control both the supply and demand side of that ad network, which makes it even worse). That’s literally the reason why Google’s results have gotten so bad.
While I’d love to live in an economic system where people could just build good web search engines for free and on a volunteer basis, unfortunately we don’t find ourselves in such a system at this time. I’d rather pay for a search service than use one that’s incentivized to not show me what I’m searching for, and I’d also rather pay for developer time than assume that they’ll work on services for free during their time off (which is the reality with eg. Lemmy admins)
I don’t have a ton of experience with it yet, but I don’t have to scroll through a bunch of actual ads, followed by a bunch of not-really-but-basically-still ads, before finding what I’m looking for.
I’m paying for the service, not because I just fell for their marketing, but because I actually have the impression of getting noticeably less “polluted” results, especially when searching for something easily advertisable (e.g. “best X to buy 2023”). I don’t need to convert anyone else. Everyone can just try it themselves and judge whether they feel it’s worth their money or not. As of now, for me it seems to be the case.
I think it’s not in our hand. We can only hide annoyances by a content blocker.
We need some 10 foot alligators to fix it.