The instance seems to be mostly right wing trolls. I know defederating is unpopular but I don’t think much is to be lost in this case and it can save the mods some headaches.
Edit: the response on exploding-heads.com to my reporting of transphobia. Courtesy of the “second in command”
I am not denying that there are people that have detransitioned for various reasons (though it is no where near the percentage the ridiculous, far-right ‘reports’ claim it to be), and I do not deny that there people who have had surgeries that have not gone as planned (“botched”, or unpleasant, or left them not feeling whole as they expected, or many more reasons). I’m also not denying that people that went on therapies ending up not becoming the person they expected and still not feeling whole.
What I AM denying is that there exist “harmful communities” that are needlessly “encouraging” transitions to those that don’t need it. Instead, what I believe is happening - and it is very important that I am saying believe, because there is a very wide range of things happening in these instances - is that those seeking out these treatments are looking for a “solution” instead of realizing that they are going to have to go through a journey to discover who they are. They are in pain, anguish, confused, and are looking for something to make them whole. In any solutions involving the mind, such as depression, anxiety, OCD, etc, it takes multiple tries or combinations of treatments to what works, and there’s no reason to think gender identity and expression would be any different. As you can see in the comments to the thread you linked, multiple commenters suggested not getting hung up on labels and to explore multiple options. I believe those that you are referencing got hung up on the first “solution” deciding that must be it and then (even subconsciously) deciding the community was the one that “encouraged” them into it when it ended up not being what felt right.
Yes. granted, I haven’t been in beehaws groups very long, but they look to me as other progressive lgbtqia/transgender groups do.
To me, people should be able to hear all sides, all points of view, all experiences, and share beliefs, medical science, etc. This way, someone can make up their own mind about things. The reason I say beehaw’s way of doing things is harmful isn’t only that people push a particular direction, but because they discourage any alternative points of view (declaring it “harmful”).
Preventing this person from hearing any other point of view than “yeah totally go explore crossdressing and speak with a gender therapist who will likely urge you to transition” is harmful. Even if that’s the right thing for this person.
Ultimately though this is getting into the weeds of interactions in lgbtqia communities, and kinda getting away from the point which is: what someone considers harmful can vary wildly. To me, harmful means someone being harmed physically, mentally, medically, or attacking someone with slurs or harassing a community by antagonizing them. to beehaw, “harmful” clearly means “sharing information that goes against their beliefs” and it seems many people in this thread also think a mere disagreement is “harmful”.
And that’s my point. Defederating all who disagree quickly leads to echochambers which can reinforce harmful behaviors by failing to be exposed to alternative points of view. And to defederate based on “harm” is unclear. different people think different things are harmful.
Some people think all porn is harmful. Should every instance then defederate from any instance that allows nsfw content?
speak with a gender therapist who will likely urge you to transition
THIS^^^^ is where YOU are harmful. NO therapist will EVER urge someone to transition for whom it is not the right option, and to say so is demonstrably incorrect. This is an outright fallacy created by the anti-trans movement.
Everyone in that thread was clearly open to the OP being exposed to any and all options. However, claiming that a gender therapist will likely urge them to transition IS HARMFUL because it it’s untrue, and I am ok with those thoughts not being allowed on that instance.
I truly feel for you that you’ve been hurt and are still finding your way to happiness, but that is simply not what happens in gender therapy. You don’t simply “have information to share that goes against their beliefs”, you want to spread misinformation under the guise of it being “medical/scientific” and “sharing all sides”. If this is what you have actually gone through and your lived experience, I truly feel for you that you feel you were misled or urged, but please focus on finding happiness instead of continuing this dangerous rhetoric
THIS^^^^ is where YOU are harmful. NO therapist will EVER urge someone to transition for whom it is not the right option, and to say so is demonstrably incorrect. This is an outright fallacy created by the anti-trans movement.
Everyone in that thread was clearly open to the OP being exposed to any and all options. However, claiming that a gender therapist will likely urge them to transition IS HARMFUL because it it’s untrue, and I am ok with those thoughts not being allowed on that instance.
I truly feel for you that you’ve been hurt and are still finding your way to happiness, but that is simply not what happens in gender therapy. You don’t simply “have information to share that goes against their beliefs”, you want to spread misinformation under the guise of it being “medical/scientific” and “sharing all sides”. If this is what you have actually gone through and your lived experience, I truly feel for you that you feel you were misled or urged, but please focus on finding happiness instead of continuing this dangerous rhetoric.
This actually isn’t the case. I’ve spoken with probably 6 therapists and psychiatrists at this point and not one actually bothered to be careful about diagnosis. In California it’s literally illegal for a medical professional to suggest someone might not need to transition.
And yet I experienced it? And not even just for trans stuff, but medical stuff as a whole. There’s way too many doctors out there ready to push prescription medications when simply asked. The “transgender” and lgbtqia communities actively suggest lying to therapists as well to get on meds despite any warnings they might have. I was told this directly by lgbtqia communities. that I should lie to my therapist to get on hormones. That actually happened.
Except it’s not untrue? I and others have experienced just that.
And yet it is? I can’t say I’ve ever experienced any pushback from doctors in the 7 years I’ve been seeing them. not a single “hold on lets slow down and do things right” just all “full speed ahead”. It’s shocking and appalling.
And here again you prove my point. what someone thinks is “misinformation” will differ from person to person.
I think your rhetoric is dangerous and you think mine is dangerous. Which is literally my point.
Literally everything in this comment is YOUR EXPERIENCE, at least your perception of it. If you were to go around saying “here is what I experienced” that would be absolutely FINE! But that’s not what you are doing, you are saying “speak with a gender therapist who will likely urge you to transition” is objective fact. Don’t even share the stories of those you’ve spoken with as lived experience because those are second hand stories and therefore unreliable. I’m not saying that the people you’ve spoken with can’t be trusted, but the mere nature of the fact that the are secondhand means they are coming from an unreliable narrator.
You are literally incorrect about that law in California - I live in California, and that is one thousand percent not a law, and I know the law to which you are referring that got distorted over social media and you didn’t even get that correct and twisted even further to fit your narrative.
No one in those comments said anything about lying to therapist’s to get on hormones. Meds were never mentioned except in people’s anecdotes. The only things commenters were encouraging OP to do were to think things through. And no, misinformation does not change from person to person. There are things that are factual and things that are not. You went from stating items as facts in the being to later revealing them as your anecdotal experience, which may simply be your perceived experience.
What exactly about my comments do you find harmful? I explained, multiple times, that your anecdotal experience does not equate to the entirety of the profession or the community.
What is the argument here?
I’m making the point that what someone sees as "harmful "or “misinformation” varies from person to person due to differing beliefs. And that to defederate over it is to shut down conversation, and declare a single position and prevent anyone else from speaking or discussing it.
It spun into a trans debate and I really don’t care to have one @.@
Sounds reasonable.
From my experience, Americans tend to struggle with that whole “open discussion” thing.
Now you are mixing words. “Open discussion” “misinformation” and “harmful” play very differently in this discussion.
No one, throughout this thread, the one on beehaw, or anyone discussing EH or on EH has expressed an interest in turning down Open Discussion, in fact it’s been more than encouraged.
Misinformation, however, does not vary from person to person. There are things that are objectively true and objectively untrue. Someone coming up with some other “truth” does not make it also true, it makes it misinformation if they start spreading it. There can be multiple truths or things that have no truth but are beliefs, but if something is false but is being spread while called a truth it is Misinformation. That doesn’t mean if Person A is talking about X and Person B is talking about Y that they both get to call the other person’s thing misinformation just because they aren’t talking about the same thing.
And misinformation is not always going to be harmful. Sometimes it will be silly (April fool’s day news casts) and sometimes it will be stupid, but once it crosses that line into harmful is when it needs to be controlled.
And yes, multiple people might have different definitions of harmful. But this is where we need to take the community’s agreement into account. You know all of those Terms of Service you always just check the box without reading? You agree to behave certain ways with those. If website is a company or a restaurant finds that you are not behaving in a way that you agreed to by joining, they can decide you no longer belong. This is what many of the comments in this thread were talking about - that sh.itjust.works and kbin.social both have bigotry listed as disagreeable terms that they deem as harmful to their communities.
So it not about having an issue with open discussion, is it?
@goat
@Otome-chan@kbin.social
It has definitely not been encouraged on beehaw.
Misinformation also blurs the lines when it comes to topics of identity.