• cloud@lazysoci.al
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    1 year ago

    If i were ukraine i would be scared about nato and usa flying jets hourly near the borders

        • muse@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Because I’m not drinking whatever kool-aid you are. Jesus your post history is pathetic.

        • flying_monkies@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Because I’m not paranoid about the country that’s been providing me with support and targeting data flying a plane off the border that can look into Crimea?

          So, again, from your perspective, why should Ukraine be scared?

            • rbesfe
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              1 year ago

              You still haven’t actually made a point. Why would Ukraine be worried about US surveillance of its own soil?

              • cloud@lazysoci.al
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                1 year ago

                US collaborates with dictatorship around the world like saudi arabia, egypt, turkey and many others. Some of that are in direct partnership with russia. China who is also a commercial partner of usa sells weapons to russia.

            • Ellen T Wright@union.place
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              1 year ago

              @cloud @flying_monkies yes, we do, but looking back through centuries of history, you will find that EVERY country with any kind of power has always done so. Turkey (Ottoman), Rome (RC church and Roman Empire), Eqypt, Athens, Spain, France, Germany, Russia, England, Nordic, USA, Aztecs, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc. This is NOT NEW. Back up and get perspective. It will help with the sand in your shorts.

              • cloud@lazysoci.al
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                1 year ago

                So if the Ottoman, the Roman empire or the Aztects were to send spies near your borders every second you wouldn’t be concerned about it?

        • Spzi@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          They provide intel partially gathered using these jets, among many other things. It’s vital support against the Russian threat.

          The question stands, why would you be scared?

          • cloud@lazysoci.al
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            1 year ago

            They provide intel for who? To me it just looks like they are playing their own games and helping ukraine because it benefits them in fighting a proxy war with russia and boost their own economy. Why wouldn’t i be concerned about a group that has a long history of meddling with other countries and that runs all sort of surveillance programs?

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010s_global_surveillance_disclosures

            • Spzi@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              They provide intel for who?

              To Ukraine, obviously.

              To me it just looks like they are […] and helping ukraine

              Yes, yes exactly.

              Why wouldn’t i be concerned about a group that has a long history of meddling with other countries and that runs all sort of surveillance programs?

              Alright, that’s a fraction of a point there. Yes, technically Ukraine might be wary of these activities, and some individuals most certainly are. Reasons exist, as you point out.

              But you cannot ignore the context in which that happens. Ukraine is being invaded. Cities are occupied, children get stolen, missiles smash into civilian buildings. In a situation like this, a 3rd party possibly spying on you is pretty low on your list of priorities. You very much would care more about the invader’s planes in the sky, not the supporter’s planes in the sky, as if your life depends on it, because it does.

              In order to care about your privacy, you first and foremost need to stay alive, and be free. Even more so since that same 3rd party provides the most help to fend of the attacks, which are the actual, very urgent, problem.

              It’s like you are drowning and worry the rescue diver might not share your political beliefs. Yes, in a different situation that might be a reasonable concern, you maybe don’t want to get so close to this person. But if your life depends on it, priorities shift a bit.

              • cloud@lazysoci.al
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                1 year ago

                If your concern is cities being occupied, human trafficking and civilian casualties you should be concerned a lot if the guys who have been doing this for a century keep stalking you. You cannot ignore the context in which israel bombs palestinians, turkey bombs kurds, saudi arabia and egypt make people disappear and the west literally endorse it. If you are fighting for justice and freedom these who don’t endorse it are not your friend and will never be.

                • Spzi@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  You are aware Ukraine asks for help, and more help? It’s weird how you spin this as stalking.

                  In which way would Ukraine be better off if they refused outside help? They accept more attacks getting through, more people being killed and the chances for victory diminishing, but they gain the moral high ground, some kind of purity, or what exactly is the deal?

                  Are you somehow suggesting the west providing the help which was requested is worse than Russia invading by force? This is so weird.

                  • cloud@lazysoci.al
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                    1 year ago

                    Apple makes iphones in china, china sells weapons to russia. Companies in USA are funding China who arms russia, weird isn’t it?

                    Not so weird to me personally once you understand that they do it for money and that they don’t or ever gave a fuck about people dying in useless wars.