It literally doesn’t matter if I’m cringe. That’s what I’ve been saying the whole time. Me being cringe does not alter the reality of what the US political system is. The fact that you can’t seem to comprehend that is why I said you’re incapable of viewing things objectively.
Reread my message. I said it was cringe to not admit that the American people messed up. I never said you personally were cringe.
Me being cringe does not alter the reality of what the US political system is.
Why is it on me, as a non-Americian, to understand the ins and outs of your political system? This point is moat because I don’t give to shits about your political system. You’re right: I don’t understand it. But I also don’t care to. Don’t make your problems my problems. It is typical American arrogance to assume that a nonAmerician should care about your internal politics.
I care about how your country is impacting the rest of the world. And this was something the American people can and should be held responsible for, because they could have prevented it literally by doing anything other than voting en masse for a pedophile to lead your country.
Why is it on me, as a non-Americian, to understand the ins and outs of your political system?
Because you’re making assertions about it. If you try to tell people that things are a certain way and that they’re wrong if they claim otherwise, then it’s on you to actually be informed about the thing you’re talking about.
Stop trying to assert that the US political system is democratic and I’ll stop giving you pushback.
This point is moat because I don’t give to shits about your political system. You’re right: I don’t understand it. But I also don’t care to. Don’t make your problems my problems. It is typical American arrogance
“Typical American arrogance” is proudly proclaiming your ignorance while asserting that people with direct experience with a subject are wrong about it. You have such an American mindset.
I care about how your country is impacting the rest of the world. And this was something the American people can and should be held responsible for
I have not claimed otherwise.
Again, you’re incapable of looking at the things objectively. I have absolutely no interest in defending the American people. I do have an interest in asserting the objective reality that the US political system is undemocratic trash. The problem is that you can’t separate those two questions.
That’s not your only assertion. You’ve asserted repeatedly that the US system is democratic, and yes, you are completely wrong about that.
You are not wrong that Trump would not have won if people didn’t vote for him (although “en masse” is doing a lot of work here, you know that you can’t say “a majority”). That’s an entirely separate question that I have not disputed at all and which has nothing to do with the claim I’m actually contesting.
That’s not your only assertion. You’ve asserted repeatedly that the US system is democratic, and yes, you are completely wrong about that.
If you reread my earlier comments, my exact wording was that it is “democratic enough for the test of the world to hold the American people responsible.”
I was never saying that it’s a perfect democracy. And to act like I am “completely” wrong in calling it a democracy is disingenuous; the US may have flaws but it’s not at the same level as Russia or China (both of which are “completely” not democracies).
although “en masse” is doing a lot of work here, you know that you can’t say “a majority”
A majority of people either voted for him or were complicit. Trump voters + nonvoters = a majority. So yes the majority of Americans are morally culpable here.
Yes, democratically. He was elected democratically twice. If you deny that Trump was elected democratically then you’re no better than the Trumpies who say Biden stole the 2020 election
Sorry, having trouble finding the words “enough” or “flawed” in there.
A majority of people either voted for him or were complicit. Trump voters + nonvoters = a majority. So yes the majority of Americans are morally culpable here.
Sorry, having trouble finding the words “enough” or “flawed” in there.
So every time I talk about American democracy I have to explicitly qualify my statement to assert that it’s flawed, or else you assume I’m saying it’s perfect? Yeah okay makes sense
Completely irrelevant to what I said.
You said this:
you know that you can’t say “a majority”
You said I can’t say “a majority”, so I said “a majority”. Makes sense to me but I know Americans are notoriously bad at taking criticism so your mileage may vary
You said I can’t say “a majority”, so I said “a majority”.
Great, now try saying it in the actual context:
My only assertion is a very simple one: Trump wouldn’t have won if a majority of the American people didn’t vote for him en masse. Am I wrong about that?
Yes, you are wrong about that. That happened twice.
Changing from “didn’t vote for him” to “weren’t morally culpable (including non-voters)” is massively shifting the goalposts.
It literally doesn’t matter if I’m cringe. That’s what I’ve been saying the whole time. Me being cringe does not alter the reality of what the US political system is. The fact that you can’t seem to comprehend that is why I said you’re incapable of viewing things objectively.
Reread my message. I said it was cringe to not admit that the American people messed up. I never said you personally were cringe.
Why is it on me, as a non-Americian, to understand the ins and outs of your political system? This point is moat because I don’t give to shits about your political system. You’re right: I don’t understand it. But I also don’t care to. Don’t make your problems my problems. It is typical American arrogance to assume that a nonAmerician should care about your internal politics.
I care about how your country is impacting the rest of the world. And this was something the American people can and should be held responsible for, because they could have prevented it literally by doing anything other than voting en masse for a pedophile to lead your country.
Because you’re making assertions about it. If you try to tell people that things are a certain way and that they’re wrong if they claim otherwise, then it’s on you to actually be informed about the thing you’re talking about.
Stop trying to assert that the US political system is democratic and I’ll stop giving you pushback.
“Typical American arrogance” is proudly proclaiming your ignorance while asserting that people with direct experience with a subject are wrong about it. You have such an American mindset.
I have not claimed otherwise.
Again, you’re incapable of looking at the things objectively. I have absolutely no interest in defending the American people. I do have an interest in asserting the objective reality that the US political system is undemocratic trash. The problem is that you can’t separate those two questions.
My only assertion is a very simple one: Trump wouldn’t have won if the American people didn’t vote for him en masse. Am I wrong about that?
That’s not your only assertion. You’ve asserted repeatedly that the US system is democratic, and yes, you are completely wrong about that.
You are not wrong that Trump would not have won if people didn’t vote for him (although “en masse” is doing a lot of work here, you know that you can’t say “a majority”). That’s an entirely separate question that I have not disputed at all and which has nothing to do with the claim I’m actually contesting.
If you reread my earlier comments, my exact wording was that it is “democratic enough for the test of the world to hold the American people responsible.”
I was never saying that it’s a perfect democracy. And to act like I am “completely” wrong in calling it a democracy is disingenuous; the US may have flaws but it’s not at the same level as Russia or China (both of which are “completely” not democracies).
A majority of people either voted for him or were complicit. Trump voters + nonvoters = a majority. So yes the majority of Americans are morally culpable here.
Sorry, having trouble finding the words “enough” or “flawed” in there.
Completely irrelevant to what I said.
So every time I talk about American democracy I have to explicitly qualify my statement to assert that it’s flawed, or else you assume I’m saying it’s perfect? Yeah okay makes sense
You said this:
You said I can’t say “a majority”, so I said “a majority”. Makes sense to me but I know Americans are notoriously bad at taking criticism so your mileage may vary
Great, now try saying it in the actual context:
Yes, you are wrong about that. That happened twice.
Changing from “didn’t vote for him” to “weren’t morally culpable (including non-voters)” is massively shifting the goalposts.