• a_gee_dizzle
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    2 days ago

    Because you’re making assertions about it

    My only assertion is a very simple one: Trump wouldn’t have won if the American people didn’t vote for him en masse. Am I wrong about that?

    • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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      2 days ago

      That’s not your only assertion. You’ve asserted repeatedly that the US system is democratic, and yes, you are completely wrong about that.

      You are not wrong that Trump would not have won if people didn’t vote for him (although “en masse” is doing a lot of work here, you know that you can’t say “a majority”). That’s an entirely separate question that I have not disputed at all and which has nothing to do with the claim I’m actually contesting.

      • a_gee_dizzle
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        2 days ago

        That’s not your only assertion. You’ve asserted repeatedly that the US system is democratic, and yes, you are completely wrong about that.

        If you reread my earlier comments, my exact wording was that it is “democratic enough for the test of the world to hold the American people responsible.”

        I was never saying that it’s a perfect democracy. And to act like I am “completely” wrong in calling it a democracy is disingenuous; the US may have flaws but it’s not at the same level as Russia or China (both of which are “completely” not democracies).

        although “en masse” is doing a lot of work here, you know that you can’t say “a majority”

        A majority of people either voted for him or were complicit. Trump voters + nonvoters = a majority. So yes the majority of Americans are morally culpable here.

        • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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          2 days ago

          Yes, democratically. He was elected democratically twice. If you deny that Trump was elected democratically then you’re no better than the Trumpies who say Biden stole the 2020 election

          Sorry, having trouble finding the words “enough” or “flawed” in there.

          A majority of people either voted for him or were complicit. Trump voters + nonvoters = a majority. So yes the majority of Americans are morally culpable here.

          Completely irrelevant to what I said.

          • a_gee_dizzle
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            2 days ago

            Sorry, having trouble finding the words “enough” or “flawed” in there.

            So every time I talk about American democracy I have to explicitly qualify my statement to assert that it’s flawed, or else you assume I’m saying it’s perfect? Yeah okay makes sense

            Completely irrelevant to what I said.

            You said this:

            you know that you can’t say “a majority”

            You said I can’t say “a majority”, so I said “a majority”. Makes sense to me but I know Americans are notoriously bad at taking criticism so your mileage may vary

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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              2 days ago

              You said I can’t say “a majority”, so I said “a majority”.

              Great, now try saying it in the actual context:

              My only assertion is a very simple one: Trump wouldn’t have won if a majority of the American people didn’t vote for him en masse. Am I wrong about that?

              Yes, you are wrong about that. That happened twice.

              Changing from “didn’t vote for him” to “weren’t morally culpable (including non-voters)” is massively shifting the goalposts.

              • a_gee_dizzle
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                2 days ago

                Look at yourself. You are literally crossing out what I said then inserting your own words into your quote of me. Then you announce triumphantly that I’m wrong, due to this fictional quote that you just made up.

                Maybe its time to put the phone down bud.

                • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                  2 days ago

                  Do you think that when I said “you can’t say ‘the majority,’” I meant that you couldn’t say it in completely unrelated contexts?

                  No, you can’t say “the majority” in the context we were actually discussing. Because if you replaced “en masse” with “the majority of” you would be very objectively wrong. So yes, “en masse” is doing a lot of heavy lifting, as I said.

                  • a_gee_dizzle
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                    2 days ago

                    Right. So you’re talking about the voting habits of Americans, and I’m talking about the voting habits of Americans, yet we are still somehow talking about “completely unrelated” topics. Okie dokie then