Huh it was always pemdas in both highschool and college in new England for me… they were also always parentheses. ‘Brackets’ only reffered to ‘[ ]’ which were reserved for matrices or number sets, eg 2*[2,5,8]+2= [6,12,18]
If you look at the arguments on math forums, you’ll see that there isn’t just one rule.
It is a convention, and different places teach different conventions.
Namely, some places say that PEDMAS is a very strict order. Other places say that it is PED|MA|S, where D and M are the same level and order is left-to-right, and same with addition vs subtraction.
And others, even in this post, say it’s PEMDAS, which I have heard before.
“Correct” and “incorrect” don’t apply to conventions, it’s simply a matter of if the people talking agree on the convention to use. And there are clearly at least three that highly educated people use and can’t agree on.
That’s not true
Here is an example:
8÷2x4
PEMDAS: 8÷2x4 = 8÷8 = 1
PEDMAS: 8÷2x4 = 4x4 = 16
PE M|D A|S: 8÷2x4 = 4x4 = 16
And thats not even getting into juxtaposition operations, where fields like physics use conventions that differ from most other field.
but you’re missing the point. It could be SAMDEP and math would still work, you’d just rearrange the equation. Just like with prefix or postfix notation. The rules don’t change, just the notation conventions change. But you need to agree on the notation conventions to reach the same answer.
Nope. PEMDAS: 8x4÷2 = 32÷2 = 16. What you actually did is 8÷(2x4), in which you changed the sign in front of the 4 - 8÷(2x4)= 8÷2÷4 - hence your wrong answer
PE M|D A|S: 8÷2x4 = 4x4 = 16
Yep, same answer regardless of the order 🙄
And thats not even getting into juxtaposition operations,
Which I have no doubt you don’t understand how to do those either, given you don’t know how to even do Multiplication first in this example.
where fields like physics use conventions that differ from most other field
Nope! The obey all the rules of Maths. They would get wrong answers if they didn’t
you’re missing the point
No, you are…
It could be SAMDEP and math would still work
No it can’t because no it wouldn’t 😂
you’d just rearrange the equation.
Says someone who didn’t rearrange “PEMDAS: 8÷2x4 = 8÷8 = 1” and got the wrong answer 😂
The rules don’t change
Hence why “PEMDAS: 8÷2x4 = 8÷8 = 1” was wrong. You violated the rule of Left Associativity
Ok, then explain prefix and postfix, where these conventions don’t apply. How can these be rules of math when they didn’t universally apply?
Says someone who didn’t rearrange "PEMDAS
The order of operations tells us how to interpret an equation without rearranging it. When you pick a different convention, you need to rearrange it to get the same answer. What you did was rearrange the equation, which you can only do if you are already following a specific convention.
No it can’t because no it wouldn’t 😂
All conventions can produce the correct answer, when appropriately arranged for that convention, because the conventions are not laws of mathematics, they are conventions.
Nope! The obey all the rules of Maths. They would get wrong answers if they didn’t
They obey the laws of math. Conventions aren’t laws of math, they’re conventions. And a quick Google search will tell you that not everyone puts juxtaposition at a higher precedent than multiplication; it’s a convention. As long as people are using the same convention, they’ll agree on an answer and that answer is correct.
You can be mean all you like, that doesn’t change the nature of conventions
Smartman Apps is a fraud who thinks 2(8+0)2 is 256 but 2(8*1)2 is 128. Harassing people about this bullshit they made up is all they do on Lemmy.
When shown a math textbook that explicitly says “3(x+y) means 3*(x+y)," they did the exact same sneering emoji routine to insist “means” is different from “equals.” Somehow.
When shown answer keys where a(b+c)n cannot possibly mean (ab+bc)n, they act incapable of working out those middle-school examples.
When I had to explain what RPN was, a year ago, they instantly asserted that it can-too have brackets, in contravention of all textbooks, expertise, and common sense. More recently they insist brackets spring into existence between operations. Like a computer needs to convert from RPN, to do math.
All the textbooks they claim to own physically are PDFs found online. Their website promises ‘an app,’ purpose unknown, “coming 2024.” I suspect they’re a teenager working through some humiliating experience with a shitty teacher. That’s preferable to believing they teach math to children, because between their demeanor and their dogma, cripes.
Mods won’t do shit. Admins won’t do shit. Feel free to keep stepping on this broken stair, but please know, all it’s gonna do is creak.
It’s a genuine problem. Moderators these days do not know what trolling is. I’ve expected one of them to claim it’s ‘smooth sharking,’ when, no, that’s when someone won’t break kayfabe in response to dinguses trying to yeah-but their obviously insincere joke.
This schmuck is proactively and aggressively hassling people with bullshit they earnestly believe. They show up weeks late to avoid a collective response to their harassment - creating dozens of independent exchanges that all escalate through ‘that’s incorrect, you’re being rude, what is wrong with you, shut up you infuriating fraud.’ I’ve seen a lot of people put admirable effort into trying to educate this brick wall. They all wind up pissed off, having accomplished nothing.
But all the powers-that-be ever say is, just block them. Like that’d help the next batch of unsuspecting people they’re gonna wind up with their children’s math conspiracy theory.
Ok, then explain prefix and postfix, where these conventions don’t apply
The conventions don’t apply, the rules still apply. Maths notation and the rules of Maths aren’t the same thing.
How can these be rules of math when they didn’t universally apply?
The rules do universally apply 🙄
The order of operations tells us how to interpret an equation without rearranging it
Yep, and you showed you don’t know the rules 🙄
When you pick a different convention, you need to rearrange it to get the same answer
Not necessarily, though it makes it easier (but also leads a lot of people to make mistakes with signs, as you found out 😂 )
What you did was rearrange the equation
To show you how to correctly do “Multiplication first”. 🙄
which you can only do if you are already following a specific convention
Which you didn’t, hence why you ended up with a wrong answer. 🙄 There is no textbook which says put the multiplication in Brackets if doing “Multiplication first”, none.
because the conventions are not laws of mathematics, they are conventions
And putting the Multiplication inside Brackets isn’t a convention anywhere 🙄
They obey the laws of math. Conventions aren’t laws of math, they’re conventions
Yep, and you ignored both, hence your wrong answer 🙄
And a quick Google search will tell you that not everyone puts juxtaposition at a higher precedent than multiplication
And a quick look in the Google support forum will show you many people telling them that is wrong, and Google just closes the incident 🙄
it’s a convention
No it isn’t. It’s against the rules. 🙄 Again, you won’t find this alleged “convention” in any Maths textbook
As long as people are using the same convention, they’ll agree on an answer and that answer is correct
Unless they disobeyed the rules, in which case they are all wrong 🙄
You can be mean all you like, that doesn’t change the nature of conventions
And you can be as ignorant of the rules and conventions of Maths as much as you want, and it’s not going to change that your answer is wrong 🙄
Yeah, you clearly don’t even know what a convention is, and what are math conventions and math “rules” as you put it.
You’re wrong, and even a 2 minute Google search would show you that and explain why. I’m done being Google for you when you’re not willing to Google it yourself.
Order of operations only has one rule: Bedmas (or pemdas if you’re not from north america)
Huh it was always pemdas in both highschool and college in new England for me… they were also always parentheses. ‘Brackets’ only reffered to ‘[ ]’ which were reserved for matrices or number sets, eg 2*[2,5,8]+2= [6,12,18]
I think canadians call ( ) brackets in math
If you look at the arguments on math forums, you’ll see that there isn’t just one rule.
It is a convention, and different places teach different conventions.
Namely, some places say that
PEDMASis a very strict order. Other places say that it isPE D|M A|S, where D and M are the same level and order is left-to-right, and same with addition vs subtraction.And others, even in this post, say it’s
PEMDAS, which I have heard before.“Correct” and “incorrect” don’t apply to conventions, it’s simply a matter of if the people talking agree on the convention to use. And there are clearly at least three that highly educated people use and can’t agree on.
But they all teach the same rules
Which is totally fine and works
Which is also totally fine and works
Also totally fine and works
No-one has to agree on any convention - they can use whatever they want and as long as they obey the rules it will work
Educated people agree that which convention you use doesn’t matter.
That’s not true Here is an example:
8÷2x4
PEMDAS: 8÷2x4 = 8÷8 = 1
PEDMAS: 8÷2x4 = 4x4 = 16
PE M|D A|S: 8÷2x4 = 4x4 = 16
And thats not even getting into juxtaposition operations, where fields like physics use conventions that differ from most other field.
but you’re missing the point. It could be SAMDEP and math would still work, you’d just rearrange the equation. Just like with prefix or postfix notation. The rules don’t change, just the notation conventions change. But you need to agree on the notation conventions to reach the same answer.
Yes it is
Yep.
Nope. PEMDAS: 8x4÷2 = 32÷2 = 16. What you actually did is 8÷(2x4), in which you changed the sign in front of the 4 - 8÷(2x4)= 8÷2÷4 - hence your wrong answer
Yep, same answer regardless of the order 🙄
Which I have no doubt you don’t understand how to do those either, given you don’t know how to even do Multiplication first in this example.
Nope! The obey all the rules of Maths. They would get wrong answers if they didn’t
No, you are…
No it can’t because no it wouldn’t 😂
Says someone who didn’t rearrange “PEMDAS: 8÷2x4 = 8÷8 = 1” and got the wrong answer 😂
Hence why “PEMDAS: 8÷2x4 = 8÷8 = 1” was wrong. You violated the rule of Left Associativity
Ok, then explain prefix and postfix, where these conventions don’t apply. How can these be rules of math when they didn’t universally apply?
The order of operations tells us how to interpret an equation without rearranging it. When you pick a different convention, you need to rearrange it to get the same answer. What you did was rearrange the equation, which you can only do if you are already following a specific convention.
All conventions can produce the correct answer, when appropriately arranged for that convention, because the conventions are not laws of mathematics, they are conventions.
They obey the laws of math. Conventions aren’t laws of math, they’re conventions. And a quick Google search will tell you that not everyone puts juxtaposition at a higher precedent than multiplication; it’s a convention. As long as people are using the same convention, they’ll agree on an answer and that answer is correct.
You can be mean all you like, that doesn’t change the nature of conventions
Smartman Apps is a fraud who thinks 2(8+0)2 is 256 but 2(8*1)2 is 128. Harassing people about this bullshit they made up is all they do on Lemmy.
When shown a math textbook that explicitly says “3(x+y) means 3*(x+y)," they did the exact same sneering emoji routine to insist “means” is different from “equals.” Somehow.
When shown answer keys where a(b+c)n cannot possibly mean (ab+bc)n, they act incapable of working out those middle-school examples.
When I had to explain what RPN was, a year ago, they instantly asserted that it can-too have brackets, in contravention of all textbooks, expertise, and common sense. More recently they insist brackets spring into existence between operations. Like a computer needs to convert from RPN, to do math.
All the textbooks they claim to own physically are PDFs found online. Their website promises ‘an app,’ purpose unknown, “coming 2024.” I suspect they’re a teenager working through some humiliating experience with a shitty teacher. That’s preferable to believing they teach math to children, because between their demeanor and their dogma, cripes.
Mods won’t do shit. Admins won’t do shit. Feel free to keep stepping on this broken stair, but please know, all it’s gonna do is creak.
Thank you
I felt like I was going crazy talking to them lol
It’s a genuine problem. Moderators these days do not know what trolling is. I’ve expected one of them to claim it’s ‘smooth sharking,’ when, no, that’s when someone won’t break kayfabe in response to dinguses trying to yeah-but their obviously insincere joke.
This schmuck is proactively and aggressively hassling people with bullshit they earnestly believe. They show up weeks late to avoid a collective response to their harassment - creating dozens of independent exchanges that all escalate through ‘that’s incorrect, you’re being rude, what is wrong with you, shut up you infuriating fraud.’ I’ve seen a lot of people put admirable effort into trying to educate this brick wall. They all wind up pissed off, having accomplished nothing.
But all the powers-that-be ever say is, just block them. Like that’d help the next batch of unsuspecting people they’re gonna wind up with their children’s math conspiracy theory.
The conventions don’t apply, the rules still apply. Maths notation and the rules of Maths aren’t the same thing.
The rules do universally apply 🙄
Yep, and you showed you don’t know the rules 🙄
Not necessarily, though it makes it easier (but also leads a lot of people to make mistakes with signs, as you found out 😂 )
To show you how to correctly do “Multiplication first”. 🙄
Which you didn’t, hence why you ended up with a wrong answer. 🙄 There is no textbook which says put the multiplication in Brackets if doing “Multiplication first”, none.
And putting the Multiplication inside Brackets isn’t a convention anywhere 🙄
Yep, and you ignored both, hence your wrong answer 🙄
And a quick look in the Google support forum will show you many people telling them that is wrong, and Google just closes the incident 🙄
No it isn’t. It’s against the rules. 🙄 Again, you won’t find this alleged “convention” in any Maths textbook
Unless they disobeyed the rules, in which case they are all wrong 🙄
And you can be as ignorant of the rules and conventions of Maths as much as you want, and it’s not going to change that your answer is wrong 🙄
Yeah, you clearly don’t even know what a convention is, and what are math conventions and math “rules” as you put it.
You’re wrong, and even a 2 minute Google search would show you that and explain why. I’m done being Google for you when you’re not willing to Google it yourself.
Says person who actually doesn’t know the difference, as per Maths textbooks
oh no! you better start contacting all the textbook publishers and tell them that all Maths textbooks are wrong 😂
Even a 2 minute Google search will bring up Maths textbooks which prove that Google is wrong 🙄
Maths teachers don’t use Google - that’s what Maths textbooks are for
says person who was unwilling to use Google to find Maths textbooks 🙄