You’re not buying a copy, but a license revocable at any moment, not to mention that you need a service to leverage that license, too, so when that service either dies or prevents you from accessing what you paid for, you can kiss goodbye to it, and your only option is to cash out again.
I’m actually not giving them shit because they’re salaried and have been (undner)compensated for their labor during the course of their employment. They’re not going to suddenly eat less if I simply don’t pay for the product - this is identical to watching a trailer of a game and then deciding that you’ll completely ignore the game; no purchase was made, yet no property was stolen, because the game is still intact. It’s not the same as coming to a store and stealing a copy, preventing others to pay for it and bring profits for the store.
Again more excuses. It all depends on the scale of the studio. Lots of studios give bonuses and profits to the workers for them taking a smaller salary. Getting it for free means you likely would pay for it on sale just to check it out. Lots of the games profits come from lower sale prices. You are stealing because you would have paid for it in some way otherwise. You might argue you wouldn’t but we both know that’s a huge lie, if it’s not then it’s not worth playing at all.
I’m sure you know better than I do what I’d spend money on to be so confident in your claim that’d I’d pick up on a sale Anyway. Not to mention that sometimes you just don’t have the option to purchase the digital product because the vendors aren’t selling it you, as is the case with some counties and companies.
Some practices also just don’t sit well with you and you’re basically voting with your wallet by not paying for the game.
As for the theft argument, let’s say you have an expectation that I should you give you a certain sum of money, but it’s just that, an expectation - like I promise to wire transfer you billions of dollars, plus some fees and taxes, but I never do; did I just steal from you? You have absolutely everything you had before, but didn’t receive the money you were expecting.
Or I made an identical copy of something you have and am now using it, too - you still have the original, though, you’re no worse off in any way because the original object is still cometely intact, and I would have never gotten it otherwise if it wasn’t for the identical copy that took you no effort. Did I take the original from you, i.e. stole anything from you?
Listen, you’re going to make all the excuses you can to protect your mental state. It’s fine. I used to pirate almost every game that came out and then I realized what I was doing. You might or might not one day figure it out for yourself but at this point, you aren’t engaging in good faith.
I’ll leave you with a simple video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM2R5xV3bbY think of it in the same vain as pirating a video game and you might see how artists aren’t able to continue living off of the games they make.
Except I’m not profiting off the games I pirate, and neither does anybody else these days (hasn’t since 00s).
You don’t even see the dissonance in your arguments: you’re trying to tell me how bad it is and how nobody should pirate of they can’t or don’t want to pay, but the benefactors don’t get paid either way, but I case of the latter, we’re somehow not talking about ripping someone off; it’s a sale that’s not being made either way, and assuming that the people pirating the content would’ve bought it if it wasn’t for piracy is just wrong as evident by a lot of research done on the topic.
I still haven’t seen your arguments as to how exactly it hurts people outside not closing the deal that, again, wouldn’t have been closed anyway had piracy not been an option.
it’s a sale that’s not being made either way, and assuming that the people pirating the content would’ve bought it if it wasn’t for piracy is just wrong as evident by a lot of research done on the topic.
That’s not true at all, the only decent study to suggest that was a self-reported survey done by the EU that has since been debunked.
Determined to make an objective inquiry, the researchers looked at 25 studies on the subject. Nearly 90 percent of these studies (22 out of the 25) found a statistically significant, harmful impact of piracy on sales.
Except I’m not profiting off the games I pirate, and neither does anybody else these days (hasn’t since 00s).
So first that isn’t true, people pirate games and stream/create videos of them to gain views which converts to monetization. Second, we can both agree you gain something. Does money have to be the thing you gain to see it as wrong or does enjoyment count as well? Or are we in such a monetary society that we must have monetary gain from work you didn’t make for it to be wrong?
Overall, the end of it is 1) even if you pinky promise that you wouldn’t have bought the game (the fact you would play it says otherwise because if you would enjoy it then it’s really a dollar price argument, which is covered by sales but ignoring that obvious flaw in your argument…) you 2) still end up contributing to a culture that makes it easier for people to get games for free. You can’t speak for all pirates and there are clearly many (90% of) studies showing that these folks are reducing sales numbers. 3) as we have seen just copying something can hurt something. This is why trademarks and copyrights even exist. It’s why the courts don’t stop at monetary gain. If you break copyright even for personal use, legally the copyright holder can come after you. Sometimes pirating produces an inferior copy of the game. People going to the pirated game to even judge it to see if they should buy the full game means the developers are hoping that the pirates didn’t completely ruin the binary somehow. Demos exist for a lot of games out there since Steam started Next Fest which features demos of games. Steam has a 2-week or 2-hour of game-time refund policy. The excuse of “I just want to check it out” for pirating is debunked.
So as a game developer, pay for our games. If you can’t afford it, message us. Give us insight into what is fair. If your region is unfairly priced, let us know! That stuff is automatic on Steam and sometimes really unfair. Price points can be adjusted until you can feel happy with your purchase. A lot of indie devs simply want people to enjoy their games fairly. After all, we all still have to eat.
Oh, now that’s the real culprit! That honestly explains a lot in this conversation and makes me see you less of a corporate ally for absolutely no good.
As for the “piracy le hurts” reports, I’m really not surprised that you were able to find these, mostly debunking anything stating otherwise. As if we didn’t live in the massively lobbied society where corporations and money-turners have much more leverage than anything else to manipulate the popular opinion on anything that “hurts” them, be it anything legit or simply perceived.
So first that isn’t true, people pirate games and stream/create videos of them to gain views which converts to monetization.
I don’t really know where you got that from, as any content creator that has any worthwhile numbers to make their monetization off of pirated content a problem, in fact, never mentions anything positive above piracy. Following your logic, though, are these content creators supposed to share their revenue with you if their content is based on your game?
Second, we can both agree you gain something. Does money have to be the thing you gain to see it as wrong or does enjoyment count as well? Or are we in such a monetary society that we must have monetary gain from work you didn’t make for it to be wrong?
By that logic, I can’t share games with my friends and family, because while they get some fun time, they pay nothing for the game. I’m sure that’s an absurd idea even in your books - consider every pirate my friend and family, especially when it comes to distributors and publishers I have zero respect towards. Sometimes a game is made using and promoting damaging practices, and while the game is good in its own merits, I choose not to support the developers or decision-makers monetarily.
While I’m at it, you seem to think that I just don’t for any games, like, ever, which I assure is not the case - I have a massive Steam library and some games I bought in EGS and GOG, many of which I deliberately bought as a thank you and a sign of respect only after I’ve played/beaten their pirated copies.
Demos, though, are still a minority. Starfield doesn’t have a demo, neither does Cyberpunk 2077, nor most (if not all) games that have prices so high that people even consider piracy in the first place. You strike me as a smaller developer that I may actually find during Steam Next Fest (love these, by the way, barely skip any), and you may provide demos, for which I say thank you, and it may even earn a purchase from me specifically; however, it still is an exception more than it is a rule these days.
If you have any games on Steam, I’ll be happy to check 'em out, either during a Steam Next Fest or otherwise. Most likely, you’re not charging an absurd amount of money on a bunch of lies and predatory practices, and if that’s the case, I won’t think twice about paying for a digital revocable ticket that I can only access via a single gateway (being Steam), but you won’t suddenly find yourself with less money if I simply choose to ignore your game, and you certainly won’t start losing money from your bank account if I download multiple copies for free or even make multiple copies of a legally purchased one.
But if you’re Bethesda, telling me that I can do impressive rounds of exploring in your game for dozens or hundreds of hours, or even months, or even years, but I have to pay at least $60 to enjoy the game… only to find out that this massive selling piece was a lie and once I’ve seen one POI, I’ve basically seen every POI of that type, down to enemy, object, and loot placement, yet you’re still going to sell me DLC(s) and expect the community to patch the game for free, then sorry (not sorry), I’m not going to spend any money on your product and make you think that treating your customers like that is okay in any capacity. Is it possible that I enjoy the game despite such flaws? Yes, but it doesn’t mean it’s worth the money for me, not now, not later, because it’s a predatory marketing strategy built on deceiving your buyers, and if you believe that pirating games hurts the companies that are supposed to receive the money, then I’m happy to pirate their games thousands of times to punish them for being absolute dickheads.
The reports and courts supporting those with the big wallets in this regard is identical to how climate change is still a prevalent problem that’s being put on shoulders of people like you and me, while oil and gas and tech and other industries get subsidies, leverage, and bail-outs from the governments.
You’re not buying a copy, but a license revocable at any moment, not to mention that you need a service to leverage that license, too, so when that service either dies or prevents you from accessing what you paid for, you can kiss goodbye to it, and your only option is to cash out again.
Still doesn’t prevent you from giving developers money for their work.
I’m actually not giving them shit because they’re salaried and have been (undner)compensated for their labor during the course of their employment. They’re not going to suddenly eat less if I simply don’t pay for the product - this is identical to watching a trailer of a game and then deciding that you’ll completely ignore the game; no purchase was made, yet no property was stolen, because the game is still intact. It’s not the same as coming to a store and stealing a copy, preventing others to pay for it and bring profits for the store.
Again more excuses. It all depends on the scale of the studio. Lots of studios give bonuses and profits to the workers for them taking a smaller salary. Getting it for free means you likely would pay for it on sale just to check it out. Lots of the games profits come from lower sale prices. You are stealing because you would have paid for it in some way otherwise. You might argue you wouldn’t but we both know that’s a huge lie, if it’s not then it’s not worth playing at all.
I’m sure you know better than I do what I’d spend money on to be so confident in your claim that’d I’d pick up on a sale Anyway. Not to mention that sometimes you just don’t have the option to purchase the digital product because the vendors aren’t selling it you, as is the case with some counties and companies.
Some practices also just don’t sit well with you and you’re basically voting with your wallet by not paying for the game.
As for the theft argument, let’s say you have an expectation that I should you give you a certain sum of money, but it’s just that, an expectation - like I promise to wire transfer you billions of dollars, plus some fees and taxes, but I never do; did I just steal from you? You have absolutely everything you had before, but didn’t receive the money you were expecting.
Or I made an identical copy of something you have and am now using it, too - you still have the original, though, you’re no worse off in any way because the original object is still cometely intact, and I would have never gotten it otherwise if it wasn’t for the identical copy that took you no effort. Did I take the original from you, i.e. stole anything from you?
Listen, you’re going to make all the excuses you can to protect your mental state. It’s fine. I used to pirate almost every game that came out and then I realized what I was doing. You might or might not one day figure it out for yourself but at this point, you aren’t engaging in good faith.
I’ll leave you with a simple video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM2R5xV3bbY think of it in the same vain as pirating a video game and you might see how artists aren’t able to continue living off of the games they make.
Except I’m not profiting off the games I pirate, and neither does anybody else these days (hasn’t since 00s).
You don’t even see the dissonance in your arguments: you’re trying to tell me how bad it is and how nobody should pirate of they can’t or don’t want to pay, but the benefactors don’t get paid either way, but I case of the latter, we’re somehow not talking about ripping someone off; it’s a sale that’s not being made either way, and assuming that the people pirating the content would’ve bought it if it wasn’t for piracy is just wrong as evident by a lot of research done on the topic.
I still haven’t seen your arguments as to how exactly it hurts people outside not closing the deal that, again, wouldn’t have been closed anyway had piracy not been an option.
That’s not true at all, the only decent study to suggest that was a self-reported survey done by the EU that has since been debunked.
https://corsearch.com/content-library/blog/does-piracy-impact-sales-a-look-at-the-data/
So first that isn’t true, people pirate games and stream/create videos of them to gain views which converts to monetization. Second, we can both agree you gain something. Does money have to be the thing you gain to see it as wrong or does enjoyment count as well? Or are we in such a monetary society that we must have monetary gain from work you didn’t make for it to be wrong?
Overall, the end of it is 1) even if you pinky promise that you wouldn’t have bought the game (the fact you would play it says otherwise because if you would enjoy it then it’s really a dollar price argument, which is covered by sales but ignoring that obvious flaw in your argument…) you 2) still end up contributing to a culture that makes it easier for people to get games for free. You can’t speak for all pirates and there are clearly many (90% of) studies showing that these folks are reducing sales numbers. 3) as we have seen just copying something can hurt something. This is why trademarks and copyrights even exist. It’s why the courts don’t stop at monetary gain. If you break copyright even for personal use, legally the copyright holder can come after you. Sometimes pirating produces an inferior copy of the game. People going to the pirated game to even judge it to see if they should buy the full game means the developers are hoping that the pirates didn’t completely ruin the binary somehow. Demos exist for a lot of games out there since Steam started Next Fest which features demos of games. Steam has a 2-week or 2-hour of game-time refund policy. The excuse of “I just want to check it out” for pirating is debunked.
So as a game developer, pay for our games. If you can’t afford it, message us. Give us insight into what is fair. If your region is unfairly priced, let us know! That stuff is automatic on Steam and sometimes really unfair. Price points can be adjusted until you can feel happy with your purchase. A lot of indie devs simply want people to enjoy their games fairly. After all, we all still have to eat.
Oh, now that’s the real culprit! That honestly explains a lot in this conversation and makes me see you less of a corporate ally for absolutely no good.
As for the “piracy le hurts” reports, I’m really not surprised that you were able to find these, mostly debunking anything stating otherwise. As if we didn’t live in the massively lobbied society where corporations and money-turners have much more leverage than anything else to manipulate the popular opinion on anything that “hurts” them, be it anything legit or simply perceived.
I don’t really know where you got that from, as any content creator that has any worthwhile numbers to make their monetization off of pirated content a problem, in fact, never mentions anything positive above piracy. Following your logic, though, are these content creators supposed to share their revenue with you if their content is based on your game?
By that logic, I can’t share games with my friends and family, because while they get some fun time, they pay nothing for the game. I’m sure that’s an absurd idea even in your books - consider every pirate my friend and family, especially when it comes to distributors and publishers I have zero respect towards. Sometimes a game is made using and promoting damaging practices, and while the game is good in its own merits, I choose not to support the developers or decision-makers monetarily.
While I’m at it, you seem to think that I just don’t for any games, like, ever, which I assure is not the case - I have a massive Steam library and some games I bought in EGS and GOG, many of which I deliberately bought as a thank you and a sign of respect only after I’ve played/beaten their pirated copies.
Demos, though, are still a minority. Starfield doesn’t have a demo, neither does Cyberpunk 2077, nor most (if not all) games that have prices so high that people even consider piracy in the first place. You strike me as a smaller developer that I may actually find during Steam Next Fest (love these, by the way, barely skip any), and you may provide demos, for which I say thank you, and it may even earn a purchase from me specifically; however, it still is an exception more than it is a rule these days.
If you have any games on Steam, I’ll be happy to check 'em out, either during a Steam Next Fest or otherwise. Most likely, you’re not charging an absurd amount of money on a bunch of lies and predatory practices, and if that’s the case, I won’t think twice about paying for a digital revocable ticket that I can only access via a single gateway (being Steam), but you won’t suddenly find yourself with less money if I simply choose to ignore your game, and you certainly won’t start losing money from your bank account if I download multiple copies for free or even make multiple copies of a legally purchased one.
But if you’re Bethesda, telling me that I can do impressive rounds of exploring in your game for dozens or hundreds of hours, or even months, or even years, but I have to pay at least $60 to enjoy the game… only to find out that this massive selling piece was a lie and once I’ve seen one POI, I’ve basically seen every POI of that type, down to enemy, object, and loot placement, yet you’re still going to sell me DLC(s) and expect the community to patch the game for free, then sorry (not sorry), I’m not going to spend any money on your product and make you think that treating your customers like that is okay in any capacity. Is it possible that I enjoy the game despite such flaws? Yes, but it doesn’t mean it’s worth the money for me, not now, not later, because it’s a predatory marketing strategy built on deceiving your buyers, and if you believe that pirating games hurts the companies that are supposed to receive the money, then I’m happy to pirate their games thousands of times to punish them for being absolute dickheads.
The reports and courts supporting those with the big wallets in this regard is identical to how climate change is still a prevalent problem that’s being put on shoulders of people like you and me, while oil and gas and tech and other industries get subsidies, leverage, and bail-outs from the governments.