I was heartened to hear about the people keeping up the public opposition of the clerics, beyond knocking off their turbans. I hope that the clerics understand that their time is passing and that they are shaking in their sandals with the very realistic fear that they will continue to get randomly gunned down by the people anytime an opportunity presents it. Fuck theocratic Islam and all other exclusivist religions.
Even the Gulanist movement from Turkey, who likes to put on a friendly face to the western world, is exclusivist – if pressed, their real opinions come through their strategic friendly face da’wah, e.g., it is not hard to get them to call Sufis (one of the few mystical/not-exclusivist islamic groups) heretics or “not real muslims.”
it is not hard to get them to call Sufis (one of the few mystical/not-exclusivist islamic groups) heretics or “not real muslims.”
Exclusivist meaning? Because while I would hesitate to call anyone a heretic as a Muslim I can think of quite a few reasons someone would call Sufis that.
Yes, because you apparently hold exclusivist ideas about what a “real muslim” is. Religious exclusivity is where you believe your way is the only way to a proper relationship with “god,” that non-members of your group are doomed in some way or another, and that atheists and those religions that don’t believe in the Abrahamic God are especially doomed.
Oh, that’s what you meant. That’s… uh… how religions work in general? Like yeah if that’s the meaning then not being exclusivist is just kufr. The only weird part that you consider being exclusivist such a bad thing.
Buddhism, at least in some of its forms, isn’t like that. For example, Zen Buddhism would absolutely not endorse the suggestion that Zen Buddhists know something others don’t know, or have anything special, or have a special technique, or can come to gain or achieve something special that sets them apart from others. If you wander towards any of these ideas you’d be very clearly missing the point.
Believe it or not, that is not how religions work in general. Not that you could tell over the noise of the fundamentalist evangelical christians, but major Christian denominations are no longer exclusivist, no longer believe that any religious text is divinely inspired and flawless, gave up the iron age notion of women as so much chattel entirely subject to the will of men, etc. Judaism is largely NOT exclusivist though the orthodox believe that Jews should be observant to their interpretation of the jewish law.
The fact that you’re willing to call out what is kufr or not is but one example that modern Islam is by-and-large fundamentalist, just a question of degree.
The fact that you’re willing to call out what is kufr or not is but one example that modern Islam is by-and-large fundamentalist, just a question of degree.
I was heartened to hear about the people keeping up the public opposition of the clerics, beyond knocking off their turbans. I hope that the clerics understand that their time is passing and that they are shaking in their sandals with the very realistic fear that they will continue to get randomly gunned down by the people anytime an opportunity presents it. Fuck theocratic Islam and all other exclusivist religions.
Even the Gulanist movement from Turkey, who likes to put on a friendly face to the western world, is exclusivist – if pressed, their real opinions come through their strategic friendly face da’wah, e.g., it is not hard to get them to call Sufis (one of the few mystical/not-exclusivist islamic groups) heretics or “not real muslims.”
Exclusivist meaning? Because while I would hesitate to call anyone a heretic as a Muslim I can think of quite a few reasons someone would call Sufis that.
Yes, because you apparently hold exclusivist ideas about what a “real muslim” is. Religious exclusivity is where you believe your way is the only way to a proper relationship with “god,” that non-members of your group are doomed in some way or another, and that atheists and those religions that don’t believe in the Abrahamic God are especially doomed.
Oh, that’s what you meant. That’s… uh… how religions work in general? Like yeah if that’s the meaning then not being exclusivist is just kufr. The only weird part that you consider being exclusivist such a bad thing.
Buddhism, at least in some of its forms, isn’t like that. For example, Zen Buddhism would absolutely not endorse the suggestion that Zen Buddhists know something others don’t know, or have anything special, or have a special technique, or can come to gain or achieve something special that sets them apart from others. If you wander towards any of these ideas you’d be very clearly missing the point.
Believe it or not, that is not how religions work in general. Not that you could tell over the noise of the fundamentalist evangelical christians, but major Christian denominations are no longer exclusivist, no longer believe that any religious text is divinely inspired and flawless, gave up the iron age notion of women as so much chattel entirely subject to the will of men, etc. Judaism is largely NOT exclusivist though the orthodox believe that Jews should be observant to their interpretation of the jewish law.
The fact that you’re willing to call out what is kufr or not is but one example that modern Islam is by-and-large fundamentalist, just a question of degree.
That’s true.