I mean, whats the alternative? Unconditional surrender?
As I see it, here’s the 3 options:
Bend the knee to trump, give up your resources, and keep your country with no security guarantee worth a damn, just to lose your country later. And not just the lack of credible security guarantees, but specifically agreeing to never join the one alliance that would give such a guarantee.
Bend the knee to Putin, and just let Russia annex Ukraine fully, therefore avoiding a war in the unspecified future.
Go at it with or without US support.
If you were the leader of your country, how much of your land and resources would you give away in the pursuit of temporary peace, knowing that it is only temporary?
Churchill kept fighting Nazis when it was hopeless and parliament was trying to force him to surrender because he said that 1. Surrender would get the UK no better terms (true here, also) and 2. Countries which go down fighting survive as countries. (I mean in the hearts and minds of people, not just on a map). Countries which surrender, don’t.
Putin can’t be trusted. Without security guarantees, it’s surrender. Even with security guarantees from this current US administration, I wouldn’t trust any agreement, since trump isn’t trustworthy either. There needs to be troops from all over the EU in UKraine, as well as US troops. Either that or give Ukraine nuclear weapons.
I didn’t say it was the wrong choice. Just that now it is more of an uphill battle than ever, perhaps with exception of the first month or so of the conflict.
I didn’t think you did. I was more continuing the conversation to point out that there is no alternative. Someone else replied to me with a great point about Churchill being in a similar situation as Zelenskyy during WW2.
It’s clear this go around, America is going to join the wrong side of history. That’s not a new thing, but it will be the first world war specifically where we are clearly are on the bad side. Typically America commits it’s atrocities in smaller skirmishes, and by destabilizing and taking advantage less developed nations for profit. That slavery habit does hard.
The world is fucked, and America is deciding whether to go through a civil war, or to let it be a “bloodless revolution” to quote the heritage foundation president. Europe is going to have to figure out how to defend in a post American world at best, or it’s going to have to figure out how to defend against America at worst.
Also, to your edit… Not just the end of Russian sanctions, but the full official cut of military aid to Ukraine. We’re witnessing the beginning of WW3. Hope we both make it through or that tensions die down.
I mean, whats the alternative? Unconditional surrender?
As I see it, here’s the 3 options:
Bend the knee to trump, give up your resources, and keep your country with no security guarantee worth a damn, just to lose your country later. And not just the lack of credible security guarantees, but specifically agreeing to never join the one alliance that would give such a guarantee.
Bend the knee to Putin, and just let Russia annex Ukraine fully, therefore avoiding a war in the unspecified future.
Go at it with or without US support.
If you were the leader of your country, how much of your land and resources would you give away in the pursuit of temporary peace, knowing that it is only temporary?
Churchill kept fighting Nazis when it was hopeless and parliament was trying to force him to surrender because he said that 1. Surrender would get the UK no better terms (true here, also) and 2. Countries which go down fighting survive as countries. (I mean in the hearts and minds of people, not just on a map). Countries which surrender, don’t.
Putin can’t be trusted. Without security guarantees, it’s surrender. Even with security guarantees from this current US administration, I wouldn’t trust any agreement, since trump isn’t trustworthy either. There needs to be troops from all over the EU in UKraine, as well as US troops. Either that or give Ukraine nuclear weapons.
I didn’t say it was the wrong choice. Just that now it is more of an uphill battle than ever, perhaps with exception of the first month or so of the conflict.
Europe needs to step up and quickly.
I didn’t think you did. I was more continuing the conversation to point out that there is no alternative. Someone else replied to me with a great point about Churchill being in a similar situation as Zelenskyy during WW2.
It’s clear this go around, America is going to join the wrong side of history. That’s not a new thing, but it will be the first world war specifically where we are clearly are on the bad side. Typically America commits it’s atrocities in smaller skirmishes, and by destabilizing and taking advantage less developed nations for profit. That slavery habit does hard.
The world is fucked, and America is deciding whether to go through a civil war, or to let it be a “bloodless revolution” to quote the heritage foundation president. Europe is going to have to figure out how to defend in a post American world at best, or it’s going to have to figure out how to defend against America at worst.
Also, to your edit… Not just the end of Russian sanctions, but the full official cut of military aid to Ukraine. We’re witnessing the beginning of WW3. Hope we both make it through or that tensions die down.
Importantly Europe needs to step up before the US does.