• TWeaK@lemm.ee
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    13 hours ago

    I don’t think that’s the case. This article says that an overly generalised definition of “sale” was proposed in California law, but that language was removed before the law came into effect.

    • solrize@lemmy.world
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      13 hours ago

      Instead of quibbling over the exact demarcation of selling data, they should stop whatever it is they are doing that could possibly be construed that way. Really, why are they even collecting the data? They have to collect it before they can sell it, and they shouldn’t collect it in the first place.

      Then there is that TOU gives an insane picture of what they think their role is when you use a browser. I don’t feel like finding and pasting the words, but really their role in the process is they supply the browser and you use it. They should acknowledge that instead of pretending otherwise.

      • BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.deOP
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        13 hours ago

        I think the fault lies in their online stuff. Things like their VPN, Pocket, FF Sync, etc… Also they collect the aggregated and anonymized ad click thing in the new tab page

        • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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          13 hours ago

          I think you’re both right here. Mozilla has been hunting for money (to keep the lights on), and in doing so diversified into many things. However, when it has come to light that some of these things are grey or even black towards their morals, the right thing to do is to stop doing it. Instead of keeping their actions in line with their morals, they’re trying to change their morals to maintain their income.

    • BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.deOP
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      13 hours ago

      Maybe I glanced over it too much, but as far as I know the problem is this exact line which is still in the law:

      by the business to another business or a third party for monetary or other valuable consideration

      Context:

      “… selling, renting, releasing, disclosing, disseminating, making available, transferring, or otherwise communicating orally, in writing, or by electronic or other means, a consumer’s personal information by the business to another business or a third party for monetary or other valuable consideration.”

      What is this “or other valuable consideration”? Could be anything which makes it very very very very broad

      • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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        13 hours ago

        Firstly, “consideration” in this context means payment. It’s standard contract law terminology. What that statement means is that Mozilla can’t give data to a 3rd party in exchange for a payment (money or otherwise) from the 3rd party.

        Mozilla should still be able to “share” data with no value exchange, or even pay a 3rd party to process the data in some way. In the latter case, Mozilla would be giving the data freely, on top of a transaction where Mozilla provides consideration in exchange for the 3rd party’s service.

        The only way, as I see it, that “valuable considerstion” towards Mozilla would occur is if the 3rd party were to give a discount on their service in exchange for the right to exploit the data. Or if Mozilla otherwise straight up sold the data.

          • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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            13 hours ago

            I don’t think I said that? Consideration is any kind of payment, money or otherwise. The terminology of the law also says this, “monetary or other value consideration”. A discount is not really giving money to someone, but it may be valuable consideration (if it is part of a broader deal - a shop shelf discount usually isn’t).

              • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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                12 hours ago

                Consideration does not have to just mean monetary payment

                Your statement implies there are other forms of payment than monetary.

                Firstly, “consideration” in this context means payment.

                My statement did not state monetary payments only, just payment generally. I clarified 2 sentences later with “in exchange for a payment (money or otherwise)”. The point I’m making is that “consideration” is a payment in return for something else, and that payment can either be money or any other valuable item or service.

          • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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            12 hours ago

            Ahh good ol Rossmann lol. I love him but I hate watching his videos, he goes far too ranty and repeats himself, it becomes hard to extract the real points.

            Case in point, the video at your timestamp starts with an After-Before-Whatever rant before getting into any of the meat XD

            I think everyone is really missing the points here. It isn’t just bad PR, it’s so bad that it can only be intentional. They didn’t just claim rights and put them back, they removed their pledges to not sell data. The conversation isn’t focused on the net result, the loss of the pledge, it’s diluted elsewhere.

            Maybe they’re selling data to governments under law? I’m sure they already have terminology that permits them to do things legally required of them (so they don’t need you to give them further rights), and the general process for the tech industry is to protest against such government interference up until the point a contract is negotiated where the government pays for access. In fact, I think this is generally what’s happened with other businesses when their canary statements have gone away, as was revealed in the Snowden leaks.

            • BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.deOP
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              12 hours ago

              he goes far too ranty and repeats himself, it becomes hard to extract the real points.

              I think it holds entertainment value, but if you want to watch the video for informational purposes, yeah I agree :D

              The conversation isn’t focused on the net result, the loss of the pledge, it’s focused elsewhere.

              I stated my opinion about the statement here:

              They should not have deleted that statement and just clarify it instead of their absolutely messy changes…

              So like expand on it instead of deleting it…

              Maybe it is kinda the same as when Google decided to get rid of the “don’t be evil” statement…

              • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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                12 hours ago

                Maybe it is kinda the same as when Google decided to get rid of the “don’t be evil” statement…

                That was exactly what I was thinking of. Although I think there were even better examples with proper canary statements going away in line with the business’ alleged joining of the PRISM program.