I still can’t believe the Romans put both consuls on the wings. Hannibal damn near had the victory handed to him. They assembled in the worst possible formation to face the Carthiginian horde. I get it, at Trasimene and Trebia only the tip of Roman heavy infantry had any success, but damn you couldn’t put a single consul in a less Rambo position? Typical Roman Republic era insanity.
Probably wouldn’t have saved them from Hannibals well designed trap, but it would have increased their odds from nothing. Instead the Roman lines advanced deep into a waiting noose with no one to question it.
There is a certain sliver of truth to that joke. The Roman Republic had huge economic, demographic and strategic advantages through its entire history, but often mistakes and improper utilization of these resources created massive problems for the republic. Time and time again it seems like they dig themselves out of the hole through pure stubbornness. After Cannae they passed laws chastising the public for grieving the complete destruction of multiple armies. Fabian was willing to save the republic from its own stupidity with an endless patience despite the consular elections being run mostly on the platform that Fabian was a huge coward. He fucking led an army to save the Consul who won said election against Fabian after his arrogance almost immediately destroyed another Roman army. It’s an old cliche that the republic died because people lost their faith in the republic, but maybe it only lived for so long because it was able to inspire entire generations of legislators, civil servants and generals willing to fight for it.
It’s an old cliche that the republic died because people lost their faith in the republic, but maybe it only lived for so long because it was able to inspire entire generations of legislators, civil servants and generals willing to fight for it.
Civic pride is a hell of a drug. People are willing to endure, and undertake, horrific things as long as their associate their own identity with the polity, and the polity responds in a way that they feel honored to continue to do so.
I did like the Roman strategy of “well I guess he’s good at fighting, so let’s just not fight him”
Then Hannibal pulled the reverse Uno card and escaped their trap without fighting the Romans by tying torches to cattle so he could sneak his entire passed their lines.
I did like the Roman strategy of “well I guess he’s good at fighting, so let’s just not fight him”
A bit more than that! Fabius and General Marcellus both offered battle to Hannibal on multiple occasions - but always on their terms. Hannibal, equally wisely, never accepted. Later Roman generals would also use this technique to great success - maneuver is the name of the game. Location, location, location. As said in an exchange between the Roman general Marius and an Italian rebel commander during the later Social War:
“If you are such a great general, Marius, why don’t you come down and fight me?”
“If you are such a great general, why don’t you come up here and make me?”
Then Hannibal pulled the reverse Uno card and escaped their trap without fighting the Romans by tying torches to cattle so he could sneak his entire passed their lines.
One of the strangest stratagems of all time, one of my favorites.
If you want some accessible academic books, try Blackwells Companion to the Punic Wars, Dexter Hoyos Carthage, or Adrian Goldsworthy’s The Fall of Carthage. They are all good and popular. If you want some video content to get in the spirit, try out Historia Civilis on YouTube. Just be sure to take history focused media with a grain of salt.
I always struggle with historical fiction because it can be hard for me to determine what was actual vs editorialized. If it mostly follows known timelines and events I would read it though
It follows several known historical people and doesn’t seem to invent any major events as far as I can see, but I’m not an expert. It’s certainly less fictional than any movies or series I’ve seen about that period.
Yeah Ager Falernus is a fucking trip. I love to describe Ager Falernus, Ilerda, Alesia and Cannae when I’m explaining the age of Republican warfare. Always gets the crowd going.
I still can’t believe the Romans put both consuls on the wings. Hannibal damn near had the victory handed to him. They assembled in the worst possible formation to face the Carthiginian horde. I get it, at Trasimene and Trebia only the tip of Roman heavy infantry had any success, but damn you couldn’t put a single consul in a less Rambo position? Typical Roman Republic era insanity.
Probably wouldn’t have saved them from Hannibals well designed trap, but it would have increased their odds from nothing. Instead the Roman lines advanced deep into a waiting noose with no one to question it.
Really, the Roman Republic only won its wars because it was too stupid to realize when it lost.
There is a certain sliver of truth to that joke. The Roman Republic had huge economic, demographic and strategic advantages through its entire history, but often mistakes and improper utilization of these resources created massive problems for the republic. Time and time again it seems like they dig themselves out of the hole through pure stubbornness. After Cannae they passed laws chastising the public for grieving the complete destruction of multiple armies. Fabian was willing to save the republic from its own stupidity with an endless patience despite the consular elections being run mostly on the platform that Fabian was a huge coward. He fucking led an army to save the Consul who won said election against Fabian after his arrogance almost immediately destroyed another Roman army. It’s an old cliche that the republic died because people lost their faith in the republic, but maybe it only lived for so long because it was able to inspire entire generations of legislators, civil servants and generals willing to fight for it.
Civic pride is a hell of a drug. People are willing to endure, and undertake, horrific things as long as their associate their own identity with the polity, and the polity responds in a way that they feel honored to continue to do so.
I did like the Roman strategy of “well I guess he’s good at fighting, so let’s just not fight him”
Then Hannibal pulled the reverse Uno card and escaped their trap without fighting the Romans by tying torches to cattle so he could sneak his entire passed their lines.
The whole saga is epic
A bit more than that! Fabius and General Marcellus both offered battle to Hannibal on multiple occasions - but always on their terms. Hannibal, equally wisely, never accepted. Later Roman generals would also use this technique to great success - maneuver is the name of the game. Location, location, location. As said in an exchange between the Roman general Marius and an Italian rebel commander during the later Social War:
“If you are such a great general, Marius, why don’t you come down and fight me?”
“If you are such a great general, why don’t you come up here and make me?”
One of the strangest stratagems of all time, one of my favorites.
I haven’t really reviewed roman history since listening to a podcast about it years ago, that anecdote is amazing
I don’t know why we don’t have more movies or mini series about this stuff, that whole war is filled with really clever moves and bonkers strategies.
Maybe I should just read more books on this (same with Napoleon, and Julius Caesar)
If you want some accessible academic books, try Blackwells Companion to the Punic Wars, Dexter Hoyos Carthage, or Adrian Goldsworthy’s The Fall of Carthage. They are all good and popular. If you want some video content to get in the spirit, try out Historia Civilis on YouTube. Just be sure to take history focused media with a grain of salt.
Than you for those suggestions, I’ll look into them
Scipio: “Bro, just trust me, the gods are on my side, watch, Neptune told me to do this:”
[uses information from locals to predict when the water on part of the moat will go subside to a fordable level]
His troops: “holy fuck the gods are on our side”
If you like Manga at all, Ad Astra is a fantastic series on the Second Punic War.
I’ve never really read much of it, but I’ll check it out
If you’re looking for historical fiction, check out Robert Harris’ “Imperium” trilogy focusing on Cicero.
How fictional is it?
I always struggle with historical fiction because it can be hard for me to determine what was actual vs editorialized. If it mostly follows known timelines and events I would read it though
It follows several known historical people and doesn’t seem to invent any major events as far as I can see, but I’m not an expert. It’s certainly less fictional than any movies or series I’ve seen about that period.
Cool, that sounds like something I would like then
Yeah Ager Falernus is a fucking trip. I love to describe Ager Falernus, Ilerda, Alesia and Cannae when I’m explaining the age of Republican warfare. Always gets the crowd going.