• HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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    10 hours ago

    People that are in favor of legal censorship of political speech make the mistake of assuming that the laws will always be applied to censor the speech that they find objectionable or harmful… As soon as you start allowing the gov’t to determine what speech is and is not acceptable, that power will be used to oppress whatever the currently disfavored group is. The words themselves are not the harm; it’s the actions that can arise from the words.

    • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
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      3 hours ago

      I’ll defend the right for anyone to speak their mind, but I’ll allow the masses to take their pound of flesh when their mind is filled with hate and bile.

      just because you can speak your mind doesn’t absolve you of the consequences of doing so.

    • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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      8 hours ago

      You cannot apply the paradox of tolerance without understanding the outcome. If you tolerate everything, the extreme takes over. You are also making it an either:or choice - don’t censor vs lose control of all free speech.

      This is false, and stems from the assumption that there is a victory only one way or the other.

      There is no victory in any form of governance seeking to hold a middle ground for any aspect of society. You don’t get to set up some rules, dust off your hands, say “That should do it…” and think you’re done.

      It is a constant battle that must be fought every single time an issue becomes a problem. No, not all speech is acceptable. But we should also aggressively protect the speech that is acceptable even if we don’t like it. If we can’t do that, then we’ve lost for different reasons.

    • Mr_Blott@feddit.uk
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      9 hours ago

      It’s your inability to differentiate between political speech and hate speech that’s the problem

      In modern societies, we’re happy with the government banning the latter and not the former

      In undeveloped countries like the US, their toddler-level reading skills prevent them from knowing which one’s which

      • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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        5 hours ago

        Government censorship isn’t just a ban on speech currently deemed to be hateful. It is also an endorsement of speech they currently believe to be political.

        The problem should be wildly apparent when we realize that governments around the world have a long and colorful history of making “political speech” that is only later determined to be hateful.

        Even “Good” presidents in our recent past have held positions that, in hindsight, are dehumanizing, abhorrent and vile. Our entire “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy for example.

        Our incoming president has indicated his intention to treat immigrants as enemy combatants. He plans to deport adults who were born and have lived their entire lives in the US if he determines their parents did not adequately prove their legal presence. He has determined that this racist position is “political speech”.

        Government has no fucking business deciding what is and is not protected speech.

        One important caveat: there is a difference between “speech” and “violence”. Threats may be spoken, but threats are not speech. Threats should be criminally prosecuted, not arbitrarily censored by the government.

          • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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            2 hours ago

            IMO, if our government was legitimate and uncorrupt,

            History has demonstrated that such a government can never be guaranteed. Germany had it right when they banned Nazi speech? They banned other types of “hate” speech not all that much earlier. Nobody knows what kind of “hate” speech they will be trying to ban tomorrow, or a decade from now. All we do know is that the people will broadly support it, just as they do now, just as they did a hundred years ago.

            I’m going to repeat this again: Even though they are spoken, threats are not a form of speech. Threats are “violence” and “censorship” is not the appropriate remedy for violence. People who issue threats should be prosecuted, not silenced.

            The government should not be allowed to shortcut the criminal process and merely prevent such violent people from being able to discuss their violent intentions in public. They should either be prosecuted, or ignored.

      • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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        8 hours ago

        Political speech can involve hate.

        Political disagreement, or any other disagreement that does not involve hate and harm should not be in question.

        You’re welcome to hate Biden or Trump. You’re not welcome to threaten to kill your political opponent’s supporters.

        • Mr_Blott@feddit.uk
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          6 hours ago

          Political speech can involve hate.

          Not in a modern society

          Political disagreement, or any other disagreement that does not involve hate and harm should not be in question.

          It never has been

          You’re welcome to hate Biden or Trump.

          I make a point of not hating anyone too old to control their bladder

          You’re not welcome to threaten to kill your political opponent’s supporters.

          Yes, that’s the idea

          I’ve not got a clue what point you’re making

      • Shardikprime@lemmy.world
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        3 hours ago

        Automatic sentient guns, that’s what kills people.

        Oh and people who happen to use guns to kill others

        • Lumisal@lemmy.world
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          38 minutes ago

          Pull a trigger in the air without a gun, and see how many you kill.

          The gun is an extension of the user - without the gun, you cannot shoot, just as without a person the gun won’t shoot.

          Same is the case for words. They didn’t come out of the aether into existence, and when spoken carry the will of the speaker inherently.

          It’s not “just words”, it can be malice or hate given form - that is, after all, the point of communication; to give form of what you desire or think to others.