Hi again. I took the car back to the dealer to re-align and the wheel is still turned to the left a little when driving straight. The tech showed me the numbers and that they leveled the steering wheel.

Is something wrong with my suspension, or should I try alignment somewhere else? Just live with it?

EDIT: when I let the wheel go and I’m going straight on a stretch of road the wheel is off center by about 10 degrees.

EDIT EDIT: called the dealership and they said alignment doesn’t include resetting wheel sensor via obd tool. Crazy.

    • fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      21 days ago

      Apparently there’s no nice pictures of it on google. But roads are slanted outwards to help with water drainage.

      If there’s nobody around and it’s safe try driving on the wrong side of the road for a second and see if it turns the other way.

      • venusaur@lemmy.worldOP
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        21 days ago

        It’s not this. I understand the road angles but I’ve driven on all sorts of roads, in the middle of the road, on roads that slope towards the median and the wheel is still angled to the left to drive straight.

    • venusaur@lemmy.worldOP
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      21 days ago

      The picture doesn’t accurately represent the angle that it’s off center. I wish it were just the road but it’s not. I’ve driven even on roads that clearly slope to the left a bit and it still is slightly off center to the left when driving straight.

  • j4k3@lemmy.world
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    21 days ago

    It really depends on the available adjustment of the vehicle in question. The sensitivity to something like the slope of the road and tracking poorly is largely a factor of trail distance.

    Think of a shopping cart front wheel. The way they follow whatever direction the cart is pushed. The steering center is the center of the upper bearing mount of the cart wheel. The trail is how far behind the center that the wheel touches the ground. The trail distance of a shopping cart front wheel is massive and illustrates the idea well.

    Every steering system on a wheeled vehicle gets its speed stability from the trail distance of the front wheels. The resistance you feel in the steering wheel (on a vehicle where there is a mechanical linkage to a steering rack) is mostly the resistance from the trail distance (and hydraulic assistance to overcome this force).

    Your trail distance may not be adjustable on your car. In terms of alignment, if the trail distance is very short, any small perturbation in caster and camber will create odd behaviors.

    Alignment is not just about getting things strait, it is about tuning the caster, camber, trail, and toe to get the behavior you are looking for.

    If I have explained it poorly, perhaps this article will help: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_angle

    I’m probably a major outlier here, but I can align and tune a car’s handling in my garage with a tape measure. All it takes are repeatable measurements and a mental picture of how all of the adjustments impact performance. The threaded rods are all the precision you are actually working with. So if you loosen the jam nuts and turn 1/4 rotation on each side, you just made a precision adjustment. A couple of grease pens to mark positions is helpful. There is no real magic other than the magic of understanding the geometry.

    • venusaur@lemmy.worldOP
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      21 days ago

      Understood but shouldn’t the dealership be able to control all available adjustments when doing an alignment? Camber shouldn’t be an issue.

      I know it’s not the slope of the road because I’ve driven in the middle of a road, and even on roads that slope to the left and same issue.

      This car also has drive by wire so no direct connection. I wonder if I could just adjust that somehow if the wheels are truly aligned properly.

      • j4k3@lemmy.world
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        20 days ago

        I can’t say what your car does or does not have in terms of adjustment.

        Was it ever perfect? Do you know the entire vehicle history personally and has it been hit? I can the you several ways to determine crash history empirically. Never trust dealers or Carfax like reports.

        • venusaur@lemmy.worldOP
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          20 days ago

          As far as I know it hasn’t been in an accident. Everything checked out including the True360 thing. Gonna ask if they reset the steering wheel angle sensor and then maybe try another shop.

          • j4k3@lemmy.world
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            20 days ago
            Look for inconsistencies in hardware that fastens panels and for any broken paint or rolled corners indicating that a fastener has been removed or reinstalled. Look in every door jam and under the hood. Most of these fasteners are installed with specialty equipment that will never roll or scar a corner like a typically box wrench or socket. Any inconsistent asymmetry in fasteners is a clear sign that a panel has been worked on or replaced.

            When looking at any vehicle from 10+ feet away, the texture of the orange peel will show what panels were painted under the same conditions. It is common for some vehicles to get painted in pieces for later Assembly, especially bumper covers, door handles, and side mirrors. Doors and fenders usually get the jams painted, then are painted continuously while mounted. This pattern of jamming will show on the fender fasteners and in other areas where fastening hardware will be painted over or not. Any inconsistencies here show that the panel has been removed and worked on. When repairing a panel, no one short of a $30k restoration job on a classic is going to replicate the same jamming and then panel work techniques. Consumers don’t even know to look at the jams.

            In almost every major crash, the panel gaps will be moved significantly. This is another easy thing to look for. Use the fingernail on your little finger to gage the gaps for consistency all around the car.

            Look at the under side seam that is spot welded between the tires of most unibody vehicles. No one properly repaints and repairs this seam that is completely out of sight and the minds of most. If it is mangled crumpled, or cut and rewelded the car has been crashed.

            Inspections do little to tell the truth of a vehicle’s history. Most of the crashed cars I worked on were trade ins that someone did to avoid insurance claims, and I’ve seen illegal shops welding halves with clean titles. All the any history report means was that someone was willing to suffer paying for a second vehicle’s worth of insurance premiums because they filed a claim or the crash resulted in a police report. Around half or more of all crashes are fixed in private without involving insurance at all and therefore result in a clean title.

            Auto body work is almost always outsourced by dealers. Disclosing dubious damage is not the goal of such inspections or their actual purpose. The inspection is actually the lot prep framework used for 3rd party vendors and the service department for the dealership.

            With my auto body shop, I would go to many dealers on auction delivery day, look over the dozen or so cars they purchased, and grab the keys for the ones I was going to work on. I didn’t need to talk to or interact with anyone. The inspection checklist on the back end is my guide on what level of repairs they wanted to make on each vehicle that needed it. I decided if the detailers needed to clean up the vehicle first or if I should let the paintless dent guy do his thing before I worked on damage. I generally came before the service department unless they already knew of an issue with the transporter truck loading/unloading.

            There are many shady things that can happen in this process. Most auction vehicles are repossessions and most people are not… kind with vehicles they know are going to get repo’d. Judging by the age, depending on the dealer, yours may be a lease return. Those are usually sold from the new car dealer directly to the used car lot under the same roof but are usually separate LLCs.

            I haven’t been into cars since steering by wire was a thing. I doubt there is calibration or compensation for this kind of system. I really hope there is not TBH. I do not trust such a system at all as it is a potential massive vulnerability for digital security with no incentive to secure older systems. If everything on a moving vehicle fails, I expect the steering and brakes to still fundamentally work under all conditions so that I am able to safely stop. For that reason, I expect the steering to be entirely self contained with some kind of backup failsafe redundancy.

            • venusaur@lemmy.worldOP
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              19 days ago

              Thanks for all the info! I’ll slowly check things out. At the end of the day, if it was in an accident causing the alignment to be off, I would need to take it to a shop to identify what’s off. Unless it’s obvious I wouldn’t be able to do that myself.

              The steering system is electronically assisted and can be calibrated. I have a feeling that’s what was missing from the shop’s alignment. The steering is still connected directly in the event the electronic assist fails.

  • Steak
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    20 days ago

    As long as the car drives straight its not huge deal. It would probably tick me off a bit if it was my daily driver though so I feel you. I had an old work truck that the steering wheel was almost sideways when it was driving straight haha

    • venusaur@lemmy.worldOP
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      20 days ago

      Yeah it just bothers me. Pay $129 to the dealer for an off center steering wheel? Not me.