I do admit it was kinda spiky. To defend that I wanna point out how obviously and loud the instagram aspect of veganism is taking over over the past 15 years (at least for the veganism I could observe during that time).
And I don’t know if I understand you right, but it’s exactly the “lifestyle” encoded into diet-questions, that differs between veganism and other progressive movements. Logically this is where it’s ideology (ideology in a descriptive, non-normative sense) is taking place, developing, and bringing about cultural practices including the implicit creation of “meaning”.
In other words, a salad recipe with alsmost no practical value, presented as another revoltion in your personal lifestyle (feat. instagrammable images), can tell you a lot about how meaning is created.
This is what I thought is a obvious challenge for political veganism and just became visible so blatantly in the thing I commented on.
First of all disclaimer, since this is seemingly identity-relevant: I think eating vegan is a good thing.
Ok come on, the article I didn’t link? Its what the thing i commented on was reporting on and linking on, the core of it.
Pointing out the orchastration of “lifestyle innovation”, in this case ridiculous “recipes”, is critique of one aspect of vegan culture.
“Shit-stirring” and “tankie”… maybe you are jumping to conclusions because you feel attacked.
But guess what, criticizing the mislead, weird, zeitgeist influenced and alienating aspects of contemporary veganism and its development is part of the necessary self-reflection of any progressive movement. Thats why I call it censorship.
And if this isn’t obvious to you, please note: you can very well, and definetly should criticize problematic aspects of a movement you like, want to support and are part of!
“Vegan” as a cultural, political identity is problematic, exactly because it can (!) easily miss out on contextualizing itself in the political. Neo-liberal self optimozation (also of the ethic kind) is an outstanding example. Constructing a vague idea of innovation and progress through the next even shinier bs recipe combined with more instagram image cultivation just shouldn’t to be confused with political progress.
Staving of that kind of critique (ceitique doesn’t say “you are a bad person” but “this seems worth thinking about”) kinda signifies that a movement is turning in on itself, focusing on protecting the idea of doing good and loosing focus on questioning it’s own methods and development.
And, regarding the jump to identity games as in “tankie”: yup I’m a marixst in a broader sense, but in that spectrum I almost couldn’t be farther away from tankies. If you need proof, look into my comment history.
Sometimes people just want to share recipes without someone coming in to debate or criticize on the merits of their lifestyle, the validity of the recipe, issues they see in a movement, or really anything else.
While the Internet has been great for connecting people, it also connects you to people who don’t understand or particularly care about “time and place”. They seem to think their opinion is so worthwhile that they must share it, sometimes aggressively, with everyone, anywhere, even with those who actively do not want to hear it. When they are told no one wants to hear it, they often engage in lengthy mental gymnastics to justify why they’re being censored instead of even considering taking any personal responsibility. God forbid one self reflect. This is you, by the way.
There are venues to criticize what you find problematic about contemporary veganism. This isn’t one. We just want to share information without non-vegans flocking in to share their precious opinions. There are many other communities here you can use to share your opinion that are meant for such a purpose. Pick one and go there instead of fighting with the people who don’t want to hear yours.
I’m not sure what the original comment is, but if it’s bad faith arguments, it will be removed. And if you’re here and not vegan, you’re probably dealing in terrible arguments which vegans have heard and debunked beyond exhaustively.
This is not really an “argue with me” place. Not about veganism and not about moderation or “censorship” as you call it.
I hang out and discuss with vegans for about 15 years now, in political social contexts. So even though I’m not vegan I probably know the arguments and still have important thoughts to add to the discussion, if you can imagine tjat as a possibillity
Wow you guys censoring critique?
The biggest misconception for non vegans when talking about veganism, is that vegan is not a diet, it’s a lifestyle.
Commenting or discussing a plant-based diet is one thing. Commenting about a diet or anything in a vegan forum is another.
When people understand this, there’s a better balance to the discussion.
FYI, I’m not a vegan.
Edit:
also, I did not see your comment before it was removedI read your removed post. “Critique” is a stretch. I’d say it leaned into combative criticism. See above.
I do admit it was kinda spiky. To defend that I wanna point out how obviously and loud the instagram aspect of veganism is taking over over the past 15 years (at least for the veganism I could observe during that time).
And I don’t know if I understand you right, but it’s exactly the “lifestyle” encoded into diet-questions, that differs between veganism and other progressive movements. Logically this is where it’s ideology (ideology in a descriptive, non-normative sense) is taking place, developing, and bringing about cultural practices including the implicit creation of “meaning”.
In other words, a salad recipe with alsmost no practical value, presented as another revoltion in your personal lifestyle (feat. instagrammable images), can tell you a lot about how meaning is created.
This is what I thought is a obvious challenge for political veganism and just became visible so blatantly in the thing I commented on.
I believe this may fall under sidebar “this is not a space to debate the merits of veganism”. <insert shrug here>
Mods’ interpretation is the definitive word, generally. Regardless of community.
For anyone wondering what the “critique” was:
[https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&userId=6311003
Thanks for the transparency. Kind of think its cool to be able to see hidden comments if they have some sort pf warning.
First of all disclaimer, since this is seemingly identity-relevant: I think eating vegan is a good thing.
Ok come on, the article I didn’t link? Its what the thing i commented on was reporting on and linking on, the core of it.
Pointing out the orchastration of “lifestyle innovation”, in this case ridiculous “recipes”, is critique of one aspect of vegan culture.
“Shit-stirring” and “tankie”… maybe you are jumping to conclusions because you feel attacked.
But guess what, criticizing the mislead, weird, zeitgeist influenced and alienating aspects of contemporary veganism and its development is part of the necessary self-reflection of any progressive movement. Thats why I call it censorship.
And if this isn’t obvious to you, please note: you can very well, and definetly should criticize problematic aspects of a movement you like, want to support and are part of!
“Vegan” as a cultural, political identity is problematic, exactly because it can (!) easily miss out on contextualizing itself in the political. Neo-liberal self optimozation (also of the ethic kind) is an outstanding example. Constructing a vague idea of innovation and progress through the next even shinier bs recipe combined with more instagram image cultivation just shouldn’t to be confused with political progress.
Staving of that kind of critique (ceitique doesn’t say “you are a bad person” but “this seems worth thinking about”) kinda signifies that a movement is turning in on itself, focusing on protecting the idea of doing good and loosing focus on questioning it’s own methods and development.
And, regarding the jump to identity games as in “tankie”: yup I’m a marixst in a broader sense, but in that spectrum I almost couldn’t be farther away from tankies. If you need proof, look into my comment history.
Sometimes people just want to share recipes without someone coming in to debate or criticize on the merits of their lifestyle, the validity of the recipe, issues they see in a movement, or really anything else.
While the Internet has been great for connecting people, it also connects you to people who don’t understand or particularly care about “time and place”. They seem to think their opinion is so worthwhile that they must share it, sometimes aggressively, with everyone, anywhere, even with those who actively do not want to hear it. When they are told no one wants to hear it, they often engage in lengthy mental gymnastics to justify why they’re being censored instead of even considering taking any personal responsibility. God forbid one self reflect. This is you, by the way.
There are venues to criticize what you find problematic about contemporary veganism. This isn’t one. We just want to share information without non-vegans flocking in to share their precious opinions. There are many other communities here you can use to share your opinion that are meant for such a purpose. Pick one and go there instead of fighting with the people who don’t want to hear yours.
The rules are in the sidebar
I read them and don’t see what I did wrong. Unless you see pointing out nonsense found in a posted link as bad faith.
I’m not sure what the original comment is, but if it’s bad faith arguments, it will be removed. And if you’re here and not vegan, you’re probably dealing in terrible arguments which vegans have heard and debunked beyond exhaustively.
This is not really an “argue with me” place. Not about veganism and not about moderation or “censorship” as you call it.
I hang out and discuss with vegans for about 15 years now, in political social contexts. So even though I’m not vegan I probably know the arguments and still have important thoughts to add to the discussion, if you can imagine tjat as a possibillity
“Vegan” doesn’t signify a higher spirit.