Why do you believe in it, do you approve it in theory or also in practice? I think a lot of people approve of anarchism in theory but rejects the possibility of it to be put in practice unless we live in an utopia… which I don’t think we do, unfortunately. Maybe techno-anarchism would be more practical? Technology is such badly regulated and ordinary people are punished harsher than corporate so I really think techno-anarchism deserves a lot more attention (not saying anarchism itself doesn’t) I see a lot of people here are more knowledgeable than me so don’t take my word so seriously, maybe I shouldn’t be expressing my idiot thoughts on it, or maybe just embrace it and ask regardless of any shame I might get.
I’m not trying to be mean to anyone, just genuinely wanted to discuss with whoever is willing to chip in on the topic.
Sorry if its a dumb question, but if its to compare to another political spectrum in regards to what it can do to more peoppe, wouldn’t it be better to compare with social democracy? Finland is social democrat, people has affordable healthcare etc (except mental health access - not impossible but harder than anything else), they tax the rich, rich committing crimes punishable by fines get a way bigger fine compared to the middle class. Do you mean hierarchy is bad in any case? In regards to technology, I’d be inclined to say people in power are doing a shitty job, but anything else depends subjectively, I find Nordic countries a better reference to compare than countries like USA/Germany/France, you can see people on the happiness index (said by many its more of feeling gratitude and satisfied) many of the countries on top are Nordic countries, they also regulate tech better compared to other countries (for example, Iceland - referring to them as a good example of a country properly regulating tech, its not perfect but its not like the rest of the world isn’t setting a really low bar)
No such thing as a dumb question!
Money functions as a points system to facilitate class hierarchy, so I don’t believe money should exist. Social democracies are still capitalist.
Some people prefer to distinguish “justified” hierarchies, e.g., hierarchies of expertise (like teacher-student type relationships)- i.e., someone being in charge is okay if it’s well justified.
Others however, like myself, prefer to focus on the underlying power dynamics. I don’t think society or its institutions should ever be granting anyone power over another person
When I look at these countries you mention, rather than seeing efficient and equal distribution of resources, what I see is a lot of unnecessary mediating factors, embedded in an inherently unjust structure- the state itself. The people there may be relatively happy, but they’re not free
But it is closer than people living in capitalist countries are, correct? I guess it is sort of a progress at least (if it is, maybe I’m thinking the wrong way?), also do you mean society as a whole as in the whole world to be cashless or countries since it’d be a less radical change, and if so, wouldn’t these cashless societies become targets of the rest of the world? I can’t seem to think a middle way through to reach to that end goal
Closer to anarchism? I don’t think so. Closer to everyone’s needs being met and having freedom? Yes, I’d say so.
It sounds like you’re a pragmatist, and that’s valid, but most anarchists are considered idealists, which seems to be where the ‘disconnect’ is (using that term lightly)
‘Idealists’ like myself catch a lot of flak over this exact issue. To me, it’s largely a matter of principle, so I think we should do it anyway. I feel strongly that it isn’t our responsibility to make sure every base is covered before making revolutionary change.
I believe that hierarchy is bad, so we should get rid of it. Yes, that then makes us a target for new oppressors, but we’re only not a target now because we already have oppressors
Interesting points, very nice to get them from someone’s different perspective, thanks.
Let’s say it was done then, how would it avoid being exploitable by those oppressors?
I’d imagine the same and only way we could get there in the first place- mutual aid and violence
Edit: I’ve been enjoying this thread, so thanks for that! Been a long time since I’ve gotten this deep into discussing these things, and I like it
So it’d have to be a big revolution in that case or a network of small groups from nearby gathering to a big revolution? Uhm… I guess with the current mass surveillance and intelligence sharing between agencies would likely stop such thing, unless people were to start using Mesh Networks like I2P considering it’d not be compromised, which if any dev involved on such projects living a country that does it like UK/Australia/NZ/USA would be approached by autorities, not a conspiracy, it happens often and the last time it happened and was publicly shared was with one of the devs of Session (Private E2EE Instant Mess!aging) who then fled to Switzerland. The only chance of intelligence agencies sitting on information about such thing happening and not giving a flying shit would be if it was from within a politically isolated country/extremist oppressive country unless it is capilist then I guess it is what it is. It’d involve so much organized planning which then… some hierarchy will born even if a decentralized one?
I think the most important factor when it comes to that issue is free association and, like you said, decentralization. Ideally we would see coordination rather than hierarchy; no one has to be in charge- there are simply roles that get filled. There are even guides online
It’s my understanding that the US military is as capable as they are on the battlefield largely due to the autonomy each individual unit is granted.
This is where things start to get out of my wheelhouse though, but it seems to me that if enough people want this kind of change, we could make it happen by enough individuals simply pitching in
Wow, thanks for the suggestion, I’ll takea read. By the way, when hyperlinking external websites on lemmy, add https:// before the website address so Lemmy knows to redirect to what only is contained within the hyperlink markdown, otherwise it’ll hyperlink relative links (e.g. we’re on a post so lemmy instance address/post/your relative link, if you were doing it on a community sidebar it’d be on /c/ directory so it’d go to /c/your link - also reminder that redirecting communities from communities sidebar will just double /c/ since it just appends your hyperlink)
In this case: (https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/andrew-flood-a-practical-guide-to-anarchist-organisation) instead of (theanarchistlibrary.org/library/andrew-flood-a-practical-guide-to-anarchist-organisation)
I didn’t know that about the US Military, that is astonishing to know.