Trying to discuss race with white people is like talking to a brick wall. I just tried to talk about racism and got fucking ganged up on by white people swearing that you can only be racist if you intend to be so they aren’t racist as long as they mean well. It’s so fucking entitled when white people start lecturing poc about what’s really racist. God.
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So first off, white guy here so I will kindly leave if this isn’t my place to speak
But onto my point, anyone who claims the key factor of racism is intent can fuck right off like the idiots they are. I’m sorry you went thru that OP
It’s like. Most people know on some level that racism is bad. And they don’t want to be bad, so they don’t want to consider that they could be racist, cause in their eyes that would make them bad people. Like there’s some binary between the evil racist people and the good, not racist, normal people. But the thing is, racism is built into our entire society, our culture, everything. Everyone will learn some racist beliefs just living in this world. You have to confront that. But you can’t do that if you’re to obsessed with this “but I’m not a bad person” shit
Anyone who doesn’t occassionally sincerely ask themselves the questions, “how might I be wrong?”, “what might my own biases be blinding me to?,” and, of course, “am I a bad person?” is not only ignorant, but is indeed a bad person because they’re not willing to reflect on how their willful ignorance is hurting both themselves and those around them.
Learning to be uncomfortable with your own beliefs and wrestling and coming to terms with them, and, most importantly, changing your point of view over time with the aim of increasing your empathy for others not like you, is part of what it means to be an adult. There are very few adults in this world.
Ok like. Most of this I agree with but I hate the redefining of “adult”. How is this an adult thing if so few actual adults fit it and most people I know who would qualify as an adult under this are actual children
I don’t consider people who are unwilling or incapable of self reflection and change to be capable of maturing (at least in any way that is helpful to communities and societies), and thereby don’t constitute having achieved adulthood.
It makes sense if you think about how mean spirited preteens/teenagers can be and how many “adults” never really grow out of that. I consider these people to be “stunted” and/or “stuck” at a particular point in their self actualization where they were unable or unwilling to change their point of view because it made them feel bad about themselves or challenged their sense of self.
Instead of doing the hard work of growing up and reorienting their sense of self around a new paradigm (i.e. one based off of empathy for others of different races), they simply decided to ignore the uncomfortable possibility that they might be in the wrong, and were essentially lazy about challenging their own beliefs.
Again, not very mature, sounds a lot like a complaining angry teenager to me. And yeah, there are A LOT of people I would say are play acting as adults rather than actually being one. But that’s just my not so humble opinion.
Am white. I am not going to apologize for them.
I’ve (tried) had the same talks with white friends.
Racism is a latent trait in almost every person.
Education and upbringing form the frame of reference.
I was fortunate to be brought up in a certain way. I continuously challenge my views, knowledge, and beliefs. I manage a student rental property and have opportunity to ask and discuss things about things with people from all over the world, from different cultures, religions, races, ages.
I like to think I listen and grow.
Belief that one is altruistic is a hard thing to change. People don’t want to change. Or they complain they’re being forced to change.
I definitely don’t always know if something I’ve done is racist. I’m not the subject in that context.
There are things I believe are. And there are things I thought weren’t, but are.
That said, a lot of people suck, are ignorant or think their view is the only view.
I’m tired, too.
I hope you can find rest somewhere, somehow.
Oof, you are 100% describing the fight I got into with my mother in law earlier this year. She is one of those “unintentional racists” (I’m sure she tells herself that to feel better), but when I tried to educate her on why what she said wasn’t cool she got massively defensive.
conservatives are so fucking fragile. any criticism of their views and they just fall apart
I want to strangle every single white person that keeps claiming the USA election results where about ThE EcOnOmY
That’s some bullshit. Sorry you had to deal with that.
accepting the social institution of race is what makes one racist. we live in a racist society. our grandchildren will look back on us in shame for stubbornly clinging to our chains
The guy that called me a slur exploding outwards into little bits as soon as I tell him I don’t “accept the social institution of race”
obviously it would be goofy at best to point out the way race is a social construct in the face of a bigot hurling slurs. that’s clearly not the point being made here? don’t be intentionally obtuse.
race isn’t real the same way gender isn’t real. these things, despite their unreality, have massive confluence on the lives of people across the world.
it is our belief in these things that power them, like false gods. it isn’t some “gotcha” moment to point out the thing i’ve literally already clarified. like, yes? believing in race makes you a racist. no, it isn’t some magical cant that will make the bad men go away.
doesn’t mean it isn’t important to recognize.
this isn’t some enlightened centrist shit. recognizing the true nature of these social constructs is the basis of affectual change in society.
starting anywhere else is arrogant and folly
No it doesn’t, not at all. Racism is built into the very foundations of society, it’s not an individual problem, it’s a societal one often intentionally ignored by individuals for whom it benefits.
No it doesn’t, not at all.
in what way are your further points contrary to what i have said?
racism certainly can be an individual problem. the OP is literally an example of racism manifesting as an individual problem.
it is also a societal problem at the same time.
we call such problems systemic.
why is racism a systemic problem? because it is a social construct. it does not exist in reality, it exists in the collective consciousness of society.
obviously it isn’t feasible to just cast a spell and make the social construct of race go away in an instant.
but it is a pertinent fact that without the belief in race itself, one would be incapable of racism. note, not incapable of bigotry, just incapable of being racist.
arguing anything otherwise is going to quickly become self-contradictory.
racism is not built into the foundations of society, it is race as a social construct that is, and then further inherently lends itself to racism, both individually and societally.
it is an important distinction.
we mustn’t need to divide ourselves unless we choose to do so. i’ll take the L on having strewn myself off topic compared to the OP, however. this definitely is unfounded under a post just looking to vent.
i just get upset seeing how ingrained social constructs are for people. nothing has to be this way. it isn’t a solution, it’s a hope for a better tomorrow. the way people are so hot to ridicule is shameful
I’ve had so many of these experiences that i mostly refuse to engage nowadays, i can’t be bothered. The amount of babying, coddling and you’reoneofthegoodones-ism they require is insane, i’d rather save my energy for conversations with people who aren’t racists in denial.
