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cross-posted from: https://quokk.au/post/590118
During a video address directed at the people of Lebanon, Netanyahu said: "You have an opportunity to save Lebanon before it falls into the abyss of a long war that will lead to destruction and suffering like we see in Gaza.
America, we had a similar surprise once.
Our reaction did not give us the assurance we desired.
Bibi is a corrupt tool, he incited the assassination of Rabin and he’s basically a far smarter Trump.
Israel is doomed because of him, because for such an ideologue security is fuel and he won’t let you stop until greater Israel or it’s complete destruction, there is no middle ground.
Yeah, funny how out of all countries the US didn’t go: “look, I get that you want revenge, but what we did after 9/11 wasn’t productive in the least, so we’re telling you to reconsider.”
The US spent 20 years in Afghanistan, killed millions, traumatised/gave cancer to entire generations of their own soldiers and had nothing to show for it.
You couldn’t be more wrong
We gave billions to the very country that supported the taliban and hid bin ladin for a decade.
And we destroyed the middle east, causing the refugee crisis that is hitting the world and causing trouble.
Not to mention we burned trillions.
We were epic moroms, manipulated by assholes like Pakistan and Israel when all we should have done was what Obama did, put a few rounds in bin ladin and thrown him off the ship.
Perhaps
But a) chances are it wouldn’t have been so easy to just chopper in and out of Taliban-controlled Afghanistan to nab him, and b) it’s questionable that just killing one figurehead in retaliation for a massive terror attack that killed thousands wouldn’t just embolden them
You’re reaching, hard.
There is no way in which the current outcome was better for the US than if we had simply eliminated OBL, all our responses after Afghanistan directly hurt us.
They actually hurt Israel too, even though theyre too stubborn and ignorant to appreciate it, we had a number of divided groups that would never move lest someone gain advantage, now we have Iran ascendant with no force to oppose them.
We gave Iraq to Iran, because Israel thought they could use us to mow down anyone they considered a problem, and because our president was a complete moron.
I’d say you are the one who’s reaching (of the hard kind) if you think I’m going to argue about whether the US response was well done
I’m just here to point out that your statement that Biden didn’t use it as an example to warn the Israelis was utterly incorrect
Also, I think it’s quite funny that you think they could have just sent in some specops squad to walk around Afghanistan with a picture of OBL and they’d have him by the end of the week or something
Firstly, you clearly misinterpreted my response, I was not against our aid in the Northern Alliance’s retaking of Afghanistan.
Secondly, we had him pinned in caves near the border of Pakistan, we let him escape because that was the exact moment the ramp for Iraq was starting. That was my main disagreement, finish your first war before starting your second, or you lose both, like we did.
Thirdly, if our president wasn’t a Texan and could, you know, reed gud, he would know the Pakistanis were screwing us for money, that’s literally their whole economy, we busted them on this back in the 80s, they basically started the Taliban because they wanted a “friendly” (read: hostile to India) neighbor they could use with deniability, much like China keeps Nork around even though they’re crazy idiots.
The ISI could have handed him over in a week, and we know that because they not only pulled him out of Afghanistan, they put him up in a lovely Bungalow down the street from their military academy.
Shame our president was such a complete idiot.
I agree on most points, except perhaps that the ISI isn’t exactly as tightly run that you don’t have strong internal factions. What happens in Pashtun doesn’t necessarily jive with what happens in Islamabad.
More words, while they kept shipping them weapons.
They have nukes. During the cold war the nuclear option was the thing that terrified everyone. Israeli right now is a full blown Rogue state that abso-fucking-lutely will go nuclear if the US pulls support. Forget about the communist-capitalist thing, it’s about some crazed colonialist who believe they should have everything or no one has anything.
They won’t.
They will go nuclear if they get in a desperate position, basically worse than the Yom Kippur War, but short of that they’re not going to bother, and they won’t get in that position, they’re too powerful and most of the middle east is still on fire.
If they got away with all this, they might also believe they can get away with a nuke. If they do they will cite the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings as justifications, saying that the Japanese didn’t surrender to massive firebombing the same way Arabs didn’t surrender to massive bombardment, and thus for both cases nukes are needed.
This is, of course, monstrous and wrong.
You are doing the same thing they do, dehumanizing the other side.
They’re not monsters just hungry for blood, they want the land, all of it, and are in a position that they feel pretty secure that none of their neighbors can seriously threaten them, thats why they’re acting how they are, not fear but secure in their ability to act without repercussion.
Using a nuke is the equivalent of flipping the table when you’re losing, and they’re winning.
Can I ask why you think they’re that stupid? Your suggestions show them as very childish actors when it comes to IR, which they haven’t shown any similar behavior in recent memory, they’ve been playing solid moves given their position.
That tells me everything I need to know about what kind of knowledge level you have about the matter.
You’re the person who thinks Israel has any reason to use a nuke when they are the dominant conventional power in the region, AND have the full backing of the US, the greatest hyoerpower in human history.
I can’t even begin to understand your logic beyond ‘well they must be satan somehow’, there’s no rationale to it.
Sorry.
The Land of America you say
Do you think your leader is strong enough to prevent a few thousand Canadians from rushing the border for a few hours?
No, which is why it’s a good thing we aren’t occupying Toronto.
Ironically we did invade and occupy Canada once because we thought we could take their land.
It went very poorly for us, but unlike Israel we learned a lesson. Then again, we are capable of learning, but then again our politics weren’t completely founded on our most backwardly hyperreligious messianic nightmare psychos back then.
Your zealots are a cancer on your polity, just like ours are. Palestinians didn’t butcher Rabin.
Well, you’re going pretty off-topic from your original statement that Bibi should have been replaced with someone that could have prevented the hostage-takings.
Also, you might want to read up on what happened to the natives that lived where you live now.
I’m going off-topic?!?! Do you know how responses work?
Yeah, they were genocided, much like Israel is doing to the people who lived there. Not defending that in any way, we were monsters and we need to make what reparations we can to them and give them decent land even though it wouldn’t begin to make up.
Much like Israel needs to accede to the original UN partition plan of 48, which they will never ever do because secretly most believe in a Greater Israel.
Well that brings us to an interesting point
If you are unwilling to vacate from your clearly stolen land… Then why should the Israelis?
We made a deal, under which they stopped attacking us.
Crying about terrorism and whatnot is adorable when you literally walked in and sat down on their couch without asking.
And do you remember what happened to those that didn’t agree to your deal?
The Palestinians weren’t the ones who turned down Oslo, and again, they didn’t butcher Rabin.