I definitely agree that Valve is responsible for the MTX hellscape in gaming because of TF2’s hats. People thought Oblivion’s Horse Armor for $5 was insane; but I would be shouted down bringing up the $25 for a single video game hat when TF2 started adding that shit. It was so much worse and that system was the one adopted by everyone and what evolved into the current “live service” systems damn near every new AAA game has now.
Unintentionally though? They were one of the loudest proponents of “games as a service” back in the day.
More problematically, TF2 popularized loot boxes in the form of Mann Co. supply crates, starting the trend of adding essentially gambling to online multiplayer games.
Actually EA popularised that with FIFA Ultimate Team and pack opening. TF2 is very very small in comparison. After FUTs success, the loot box trend really set off.
They were one of the loudest proponents of “games as a service” back in the day.
Among the old PS3 conferences there’s this one where Portal 2 is announced for PS3. While everybody else tried to make 3D TV gaming and motion controls the next big thing, Gabe just enters the stage and describes how they believe games as a service is the future.
They were so far ahead. Everybody struggled to figure out what the next big thing is going to be. Valve had already figured it out.
But the fact people spend $60 on a skin in a game, for just one character or weapon, is absolutely fucking insane. Not that I agree with any paid game selling cosmetics for any price.
But the fact people spend $60 on a skin in a game, for just one character or weapon, is absolutely fucking insane.
My nephew got very excited about the Transformers skins coming to Overwatch. I let him have his hype cycle (we are both Transformers fans), then asked him how much it cost. I told him he could buy an entire game for that much. Then, on his own, he started analyzing the pricing, and how buying 3 of the 4 on their own is more than buying the whole pack. Which segued nicely into how companies use price to steer people into buying specific things.
But he was still iffy until I told him that the same money could buy 2-3 HG Gundam kits. The next day he told me that he had bought an RG kit instead. Works for me.
I’m so torn between “good that the kids learning to do the math” and “kid is still basically paying for Barbie dream house clothing packs which change the actual game exactly 0”
Net positive I think, and good on op for nudging kinder the right direction, but…damn have game companies gotten us under their fingers.
It’s absolutely absurd what people are willing to pay for cosmetics. I’m not about to tell anybody what they should do with their own money; do whatever makes you feel happy, even if that means buying a digital hat. But I’ve seen some wild shit.
I used to be one of the top-rated middlemen in the TF2 trading scene, and was a SteamRep admin for several years. This was back before Steam Marketplace existed and before there were reliable, bot-managed escrow services for these grey market sales. I oversaw some pretty big trades in that time. I remember one of the larger ones I oversaw was for a BFTC, and I think the buyer spent over $1000 on it.
And you can bet your ass I played a few games with it on while I waited for them to finalize the payment; I’m no better than a valet taking your car for a joyride while you eat dinner. :)
Yeah, it’s your money, spend it how you want (but please stop buying skins). It’s a tough one, I guess we are stuck with it though unless a major attitude shift happens suddenly. I think a lot of people forgot or never experienced games before MTX were rampant, so they literally don’t know any better.
That’s crazy yeah, there’s CS skins these days going for tens of thousands. I heard there was an AK sold for over a million, whether or not that was true I don’t know, but the fact I think it could be really says a lot about the current state of video games.
It is worth noting that unlike something like a League or Overwatch skin, and even a lot of early TF2 trading, modern CS and Dota skins have more emphasis put on their marketability and speculative value. For example, I’ve bought a few CS skins that I don’t use, purely because I expect their value to increase over the next couple years. Of course, thats not all of the buyers, but that influences the purchase, and allows for those valuations unlike a Fortnite skin with a fixed price tag set by Epic with zero recoupable value.
Yes, but the market is still designed to make Valve money and they are using that as a marketing tool to entice you in.
The more desirable skins are a lot more expensive than they would be in Fortnite or whatever. The upside is that you can sell and trade them, so you can actually recoup at least 85% of the value (or more), the downside being that the money stays in Valve’s ecosystem. Ignoring 3rd-party markets here, where you can risk selling for real money.
If you actually got one from a crate or very early on when they dropped super rarely by just playing, you can. If you buy them directly from the store (where the base price was $25; not sure what they are today if even still available) you cannot resell them on the market.
You’re much more likely to spend well over that same $25 buying keys to unlock crates for the slim chance at getting one than just buying it straight up. Which is why they are super expensive on the market.
I think mobile monetization is what most people experienced first. Was the first ad driven games and mtx was something pretty much anyone that had a phone encountered with it not being platform specific. So I feel like mobile was the main driving force with the initial low cost and free apps and need to monetize then turning out to be an absolute hit.
I never experienced TF2 since I wasn’t PC gaming back then. But the mainstream success of mobile and the low/free app costs made what would happen to "traditional " gaming inevitable.
I definitely agree that Valve is responsible for the MTX hellscape in gaming because of TF2’s hats. People thought Oblivion’s Horse Armor for $5 was insane; but I would be shouted down bringing up the $25 for a single video game hat when TF2 started adding that shit. It was so much worse and that system was the one adopted by everyone and what evolved into the current “live service” systems damn near every new AAA game has now.
Unintentionally though? They were one of the loudest proponents of “games as a service” back in the day.
More problematically, TF2 popularized loot boxes in the form of Mann Co. supply crates, starting the trend of adding essentially gambling to online multiplayer games.
Actually EA popularised that with FIFA Ultimate Team and pack opening. TF2 is very very small in comparison. After FUTs success, the loot box trend really set off.
TF2 proved it was a viable model
No, that’s steam, we don’t speak bad about steam here.
Among the old PS3 conferences there’s this one where Portal 2 is announced for PS3. While everybody else tried to make 3D TV gaming and motion controls the next big thing, Gabe just enters the stage and describes how they believe games as a service is the future.
They were so far ahead. Everybody struggled to figure out what the next big thing is going to be. Valve had already figured it out.
At least I can sell my TF2 hats.
But the fact people spend $60 on a skin in a game, for just one character or weapon, is absolutely fucking insane. Not that I agree with any paid game selling cosmetics for any price.
My nephew got very excited about the Transformers skins coming to Overwatch. I let him have his hype cycle (we are both Transformers fans), then asked him how much it cost. I told him he could buy an entire game for that much. Then, on his own, he started analyzing the pricing, and how buying 3 of the 4 on their own is more than buying the whole pack. Which segued nicely into how companies use price to steer people into buying specific things.
But he was still iffy until I told him that the same money could buy 2-3 HG Gundam kits. The next day he told me that he had bought an RG kit instead. Works for me.
Respect to him.
I’m so torn between “good that the kids learning to do the math” and “kid is still basically paying for Barbie dream house clothing packs which change the actual game exactly 0”
Net positive I think, and good on op for nudging kinder the right direction, but…damn have game companies gotten us under their fingers.
“Oh come on, you know you want the shiny, it’s only $60!”
It’s absolutely absurd what people are willing to pay for cosmetics. I’m not about to tell anybody what they should do with their own money; do whatever makes you feel happy, even if that means buying a digital hat. But I’ve seen some wild shit.
I used to be one of the top-rated middlemen in the TF2 trading scene, and was a SteamRep admin for several years. This was back before Steam Marketplace existed and before there were reliable, bot-managed escrow services for these grey market sales. I oversaw some pretty big trades in that time. I remember one of the larger ones I oversaw was for a BFTC, and I think the buyer spent over $1000 on it.
And you can bet your ass I played a few games with it on while I waited for them to finalize the payment; I’m no better than a valet taking your car for a joyride while you eat dinner. :)
Yeah, it’s your money, spend it how you want (but please stop buying skins). It’s a tough one, I guess we are stuck with it though unless a major attitude shift happens suddenly. I think a lot of people forgot or never experienced games before MTX were rampant, so they literally don’t know any better.
That’s crazy yeah, there’s CS skins these days going for tens of thousands. I heard there was an AK sold for over a million, whether or not that was true I don’t know, but the fact I think it could be really says a lot about the current state of video games.
It is worth noting that unlike something like a League or Overwatch skin, and even a lot of early TF2 trading, modern CS and Dota skins have more emphasis put on their marketability and speculative value. For example, I’ve bought a few CS skins that I don’t use, purely because I expect their value to increase over the next couple years. Of course, thats not all of the buyers, but that influences the purchase, and allows for those valuations unlike a Fortnite skin with a fixed price tag set by Epic with zero recoupable value.
Yes, but the market is still designed to make Valve money and they are using that as a marketing tool to entice you in. The more desirable skins are a lot more expensive than they would be in Fortnite or whatever. The upside is that you can sell and trade them, so you can actually recoup at least 85% of the value (or more), the downside being that the money stays in Valve’s ecosystem. Ignoring 3rd-party markets here, where you can risk selling for real money.
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If you actually got one from a crate or very early on when they dropped super rarely by just playing, you can. If you buy them directly from the store (where the base price was $25; not sure what they are today if even still available) you cannot resell them on the market.
You’re much more likely to spend well over that same $25 buying keys to unlock crates for the slim chance at getting one than just buying it straight up. Which is why they are super expensive on the market.
It’s 100% intentional
TF2’s hats were just the beginning. The shit they’ve pulled with my beloved dota 2 over the years ended up disgusting me away from the game altogether
Dota Plus killed it for me. I used to buy every TI Battle Pass + Extra Levels but the paywalling the QOL and Analytics was disgusting.
I think mobile monetization is what most people experienced first. Was the first ad driven games and mtx was something pretty much anyone that had a phone encountered with it not being platform specific. So I feel like mobile was the main driving force with the initial low cost and free apps and need to monetize then turning out to be an absolute hit.
I never experienced TF2 since I wasn’t PC gaming back then. But the mainstream success of mobile and the low/free app costs made what would happen to "traditional " gaming inevitable.