• Maggoty@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    I’m not going to vote for Biden until he stops funding a genocide. You cannot say put pressure on them and vote for them no matter what. They do not give a fuck what you think if you’re going to automatically vote for them. That’s why the uncommitted votes in the primaries scared them so much.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Oh no, you’re only the thousandth person to tell me that. It’s so persuasive. Either I vote for the guy funding a genocide or the Boogeyman gets elected1!!111!!1

        • cowfodder@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          Vote for the guy that’s unfortunately not willing to break with decades worth of support for Israel or the guy who’s said he’d send in ground troops wins.

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            There is actually a third option this time around, not that he’s any better with bird flu on the way. But no it’s never an either/or proposition. You are in fact allowed to leave that spot on the ballot blank.

              • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                Yet another fallacy meant to coerce votes for bad candidates. I’m not politically disengaged. This is a political choice.

            • samus12345@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              As long as you’re voting on everything else on the ballot, fair enough. Also, I’m hoping you don’t live in a battleground state.

              • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                Oh yeah. It doesn’t work if you don’t vote at all. They have to know they left those votes behind.

        • samus12345@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          Yes, that’s the reality of the situation, whether you like it or not. If you don’t care if that happens, fair enough. But don’t try to say that not voting for Biden doesn’t help Trump.

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            I didn’t say that. I said that at this point, months into this debacle, it’s obviously not persuasive to me. I am not willing to sell the lives of Palestinian children to make my life marginally more comfortable.

              • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                You can’t get extra dead. Here’s the IPC’s take on Gaza right now-

                The famine threshold for household acute food insecurity has already been far exceeded and, given the latest data showing a steeply increasing trend in cases of acute malnutrition, it is highly likely that the famine threshold for acute malnutrition has also been exceeded. The upward trend in non-trauma mortality is also expected to accelerate, resulting in all famine thresholds likely to be passed imminently.

                Those kids aren’t going to be alive in November.

                  • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                    6 months ago

                    I freely admit he won’t help them. I’m also telling you it won’t matter by then because you can’t be extra dead.

            • samus12345@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              Those children will die regardless of who you vote for or if you don’t vote at all. It’s a horrific tragedy that is completely out of anyone who isn’t in power’s control. So instead of worrying about that, worry about what you CAN control - preventing fascists from gaining more power and making things even worse than they already are.

              • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                No a tragedy is a plane crash. A tragedy is a tornado directly hitting the school gym everyone sheltered in.

                This is a war crime, a massacre, an act so vile that civilized countries have agreed it should not be done, ever.

                And we do not have to be complicit.

                  • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                    6 months ago

                    We can control our complicity. Politicians can be brought to heel. Saying we can’t do it is just another way of excusing ourselves from worrying about what our leadership is doing.

            • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
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              6 months ago

              I’d be willing to bet you couldn’t point to Palestine on a map this time last year.

              • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                I bet you don’t know who I am, what I went to college for, or where I was before college. Because you’re very wrong.

                • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
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                  6 months ago

                  I’ll bet I know what you don’t know. And that’s where Palestine was on the map prior to October 7th.

        • ripcord@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          And they’re right. And you’re wrong but don’t want to listen, so here we are.

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            If the choice is people dying or people dying then the system is no longer legitimate.

            • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              So do you plan on doing anything about it, or just going to pout about it and feel good about not voting when those people get bombed harder?

              This is just virtue signaling. If you cared about the people you’d want to reduce the harm they’re facing, not try to moralize your bad choice on the Internet.

              • PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                This is a two-way street though. You’d think the democratic establishment would also want to increase their electoral odds in order to reduce harm.

                Like, the stakes are so high, and it’s so weird to see them betting the horse on Israel. It’s frankly irresponsible for Democrats to be playing politics like that at a time like this.

                • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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                  6 months ago

                  They’re not betting the house on Israel. They’re hedging. They increased aid to Palestine, they delayed arms shipments, and they’ve been pursuing a ceasefire deal like their lives depended on it.

                  You want them to bet the house on Palestine.

                  • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                    6 months ago

                    Increased what aid? The aid agencies are reporting the warehouses are empty. There is no aid getting in.

              • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                Ah yes all moral actions are just utilitarian so we should abandon morality.

            • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              You have the choice of people dying or MORE people dying though. Seems like a very obvious choice.

              • TheHiddenCatboy@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                On top of this, you have the bigger picture. What will happen if Trump wins?

                • It will get harder to go to college, as Trump works to gut Pell Grants and cap Stafford Loans.
                • If you have gone to college, it will get harder as Trump will increase the monthly amount you have to pay and not reward you for going into lower-paying public service jobs.
                • Gay marriage will be put on the chopping block.
                • Laws stopping discrimination against Gays and Minorities will be repealed and/or not enforced.

                This is just the most benign parts of Project 2025. It gets worse from there.

                So, on top of more people dying, we’ll suffer here at home because of idiots like Maggoty here.

                • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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                  6 months ago

                  Sure, but I don’t even want to get into all that. They’ll just pivot back to the stupid “genocide Joe” bullshit. I want to pin em down on that, because even THAT makes no goddamn sense.

              • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                Not really. You can’t extra die. People are starving now. Not next January.

                • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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                  6 months ago

                  You think that, under Biden, literally every single Palestinian will die?

                  Because that’s what Trump has said he wants.

                  • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                    6 months ago

                    First, Trump isn’t any more or less capable of doing that than Biden. Both of them have the same toolset to work with.

                    Second, yes, if you starve the open air concentration camp you can in fact kill everyone there in a few months.

        • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
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          6 months ago

          That you think everyone here lacks intelligence enough to fall for that nonsense speaks volumes about your own.

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            No I think you’re just being willfully ignorant because it’s easier and those dead kids are over there.

            • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
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              6 months ago

              Right… the dead kids. The perfect hot button rhetoric to swing around when you want to really drive the point home that “biDeN bAaAD!!”

              You’re seemingly as textbook as one could be.

    • Starkstruck@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      Cause letting the guy who wants to send in the us military to “wipe em all out” win is waaaaay better for those people you pretend to care about.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Hilariously that would give them more access to aid than Israel is giving them. Trump wouldn’t be able to stop the US military from distributing aid as part of its normal operations mode. As usual he has no clue how the military works.

        • braxy29@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          dafuq kinda nonsense is this? lesse, a president who supports wiping out Palestinians is better for Palestinians because then they get more aid?

          ???

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Oh look, another original take. You’re only the (checks notes) hundredth comment attempting to gaslight me into thinking I’m a trump supporter because I’m not blindly loyal to Biden. Not even the Democrats, Just Biden. And you guys accuse Trump supporters of being a cult.

        • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
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          6 months ago

          Hmm… when 99 people in a room full of a hundred people suggest something-

          Maybe it’s best to not believe that one dude that disagrees with them.

          Spades are sometimes just spades. Regardless if they tell you they’re not.

    • Wiz@midwest.social
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      6 months ago

      Mathematically, either Biden or Trump will win, with 100% certainty.

      As lamentable as it is for Palestinians, you drawing the line in the sand over foreign policy in Palestine & Israel will not help Palestinians. I would even go as far to say that Biden’s policy on Israel is marginally better than what Trump’s would be. The GOP is actively hostile against Palestine. At least with Biden we are getting (gentle) push-back on Israel.

      So, if it’s a given that either Biden or Trump will win, you have one of four options, depending on your political leaning:

      1. Liberal and vote for Biden. Helps Biden.
      2. Conservative and vote for Trump. Helps Trump.
      3. Liberal and don’t vote for Biden. Helps Trump.
      4. Conservative and don’t vote for Trump. Helps Biden.

      I don’t see any other option, but if someone has one - one that helps Palestine - I’d be interested to hear option 5.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        If the choice is genocide or genocide then it’s not a real choice and this election is not legitimate.

        • Wiz@midwest.social
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          6 months ago

          In spite of you saying it’s not a real choice, you seem to be choosing #3 or #4.

          Bold choice. We’ll see how it goes.

            • Wiz@midwest.social
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              6 months ago

              It is my categorization. But it’s a logical framing.

              I’d be interested to hear if there are any other logical possibilities outside the four I named.

              You might be making an illogical choice, and that’s ok. It is you, and you can make your own choice.

              • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                The democratic party realizes it’s losing voters instead of gaining them and reverses course. And yes that requires being willing to carry out the threat of not voting for Biden in November.

                • Wiz@midwest.social
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                  6 months ago

                  You base all your facts on feels, dontcha?

                  I won’t be responding any more to you, since you are an untrustworthy interlocutor. And I mean that!

                  • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                    6 months ago

                    Electoral boycotts aren’t new. And our entire political philosophy is based around voters holding elected leaders responsible. Saying we have to vote for someone completely removes that accountability.

                    I base my facts on research and my college education in politics.

    • PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      Classic Lemmy. They’re quicker to blame you than they are Biden for bad policy.

      A true optimist would suggest that Joe Biden could absolutely reverse course. It’s like they’ve all given up on that possibility.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Pretty much. I’m open about the fact that I would vote for him if he reversed course. Nope, still just shouting at me and calling me a trump supporter.