Falun Gong is a cult that believes that following their religion makes your body physically healthier because it aligns the metaphysical energies of your body in a special way. This they say means they have the juciest most bestest organs that the Chinese government wants because they’re the BEST GOD DAMN ORGANS around, which is why they actively spread this myth. All of your above sources cite the Falun Gong, or claim that it happened to the Falun Gong such as in your second link:
“Usually these Falun Gong practitioners were injected with a shot to cause heart failure. During the process these people would be pushed into operating rooms to have their organs removed,”
I strongly urge you to watch this video. It is not a pro-china source, it is a liberal source. I think you might come away from it with many questions and when you start realising that literally every single one of these is coming from, or about, or linked to falun gong in some way it becomes impossible to ignore what the source is.
Wow, this is a rabbit hole and a half. I really can’t agree with you though that all those sources are from the Falun Gong, as many of them talk about this same practice being performed on Uyghurs. Also many of those sources are from doctors who performed the harvests, not from Falun Gong members talking about how it’s happening. A lot of the evidence is circumstantial, pointing to the fact that the Chinese transplant industry boomed in the early 2000s with no real explanation of where all these organs came from. There are no corresponding increases in voluntary donations, and the speed at which these organs are delivered suggests a sort of on demand execution and harvest system.
It’s important to note, the Falun Gong being a cult really doesn’t have any bearing on whether or not China is executing political dissidents for organs to fuel their massive transplant industry. Both “the Falun Gong is a crazy cult” and “China is executing prisoners and selling their organs” can be true.
I really can’t agree with you though that all those sources are from the Falun Gong
I can connect all of your sources to an obsession with Falun Gong incredibly easily.
First link: Google the author, Ruth Ingram. This is a fake name used to spread literally nothing but organ harvesting content that ALL mentions Falun Gong.
Second link: Wang Guoqi’s claim is solely about Falun Gong.
Third link: Is just a wikipedia page so we should be tossing this out anyway. Several citations are Falun Gong though.
Fourth link: Relies mainly on presenting ChinaTribunal as a legitimate court tribunal by real courts when it is in fact a propaganda outlet. This “independent tribunal” gets presented as such and its conclusion is dadadadadadadaaaaa - that Falun Gong members are the primary source of organs that China harvests. It then vaguely connects this to Uighurs later in the article but offers literally zero evidence, only accusations.
You will not find anything on this topic that you can disconnect from Falun Gong. It is impossible because Falun Gong is the source of it. I can stick around and enjoy going down this rabbit hole with you though if you want to try, I am quite happy to be a wall you bounce things off, it’s pretty crazy.
Wait, I feel like I missed something here. You surely don’t meant just because falun gong is a cult it justifies the all those killing and organ harvesting?
You’re missing the point. It’s made up by Falun Gong. Because a core component of their uhh… Recruitment… Is making up myths like this that make it look like the Chinese government confirms that following Falun Gong makes you healthier because they want to harvest their healthy healthy top grade organs.
The killing and organ harvesting that Falun Gong claims to have happened? QAnon claims that Trump prevented a coup from Obama and Clinton and fought a cabal of pedophiles.
Cults are built on lies. Why would you trust anything a cult says? They lie about everything.
QAnon didn’t receive attention from the UN though, so falun gong case carry more weight.
If you say falun gong organ harvesting didn’t happen, why don’t you (or other people in this thread that keep denying it) provide any source to prove your point instead of downvoting?
Here’s a question: can you even name another Asian cult?
Turns out, a mostly Western construct whose leadership is mostly dominated by the West doesn’t understand Eastern culture. No one worth a damn in Eastern countries gives a fuck about what Falun Gong says.
If you want a real human rights violation to be outraged by, look at the Muslim crackdown in China. That has actual, verifiable evidence.
If you say falun gong organ harvesting didn’t happen, why don’t you (or other people in this thread that keep denying it) provide any source to prove your point instead of downvoting?
How do you expect someone to prove a negative? What sort of evidence would you like that proves that something didn’t happen?
Same way like people accused of murder and organ harvesting defending themselves. Prove that those people are still alive, autopsy proof that the deceased still have their organ intact, etc. Am I supposed to just take your word as truth without asking for proof? That would make just as bad as antivaxers or climate change deniers.
The first article deals with a U.S. bill passed against organ harvesting, of which the passage of such a bill on its own is no more evidence of the PRC’s wrongdoing than if the PRC were to pass a law against U.S. wrongdoing. The article mostly touches on Enver Tohti’s testimony and others presented at the Uyghur Tribunal, a “people’s tribunal” requested by the World Uyghur Congress, an organization which partially funded the Uyghur Tribunal, and which is funded by the NED, a U.S. government agency which distributes funds allocated to it by Congress (i.e. the Tribunal was funded by the U.S. government through an intermediary).
The current president of the NED Carl Gershman stated in 1986, “We should not have to do this kind of work covertly. It would be terrible for democratic groups around the world to be seen as subsidized by the C.I.A. We saw that in the 60’s, and that’s why it has been discontinued. We have not had the capability of doing this, and that’s why the endowment was created.”
And Allen Weinstein (founder of the NED) said in 1991, "A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA.”
The Tribunal itself had issues with the accurate handling of testimonies, with a relevant comment in an assessment reading: “Needless to say, the (unsworn) word of one individual is not sufficient to substantiate such a grave allegation, nor is it sufficient to extrapolate it out to the PRC government possessing special genocidal intent forming part of a manifest pattern of destruction directed at the Uyghur population. Reliance on such weak evidence may be a result of the Uyghur Tribunal failing to appoint a (competent) defense counsel for the PRC government.”
The article later cites the China Tribunal, initiated by ETAC, which has Falun Gong (homophobic feudalist cult) members on its committee. The Tribunal faces the same problems of cross examination and no proper opposition representation with the majority of its witnesses being Falun Gong members, and there also being the testimony of a WUC member (problems already discussed):
Fears were compounded during the so-called “People’s” China Tribunal” in 2019 when observers learned over the course of days of witness testimonies, first hand experiences and expert research, that organs were available on demand, that special fast track human organ lanes had been set aside at Xinjiang’s Kashgar airport, and that Uyghurs were being increasingly targeted.
The OCHR “extreme alarm” bit is nonsense, with the cited article containing no specifics at all, and the full OCHR report being (relatively) (poor).
The second source is the testimony of a doctor. Like the falsified testimony of infanticide in Iraq which partially urged the Iraq War, this is not enough to indict an entire nation, especially with this testimony being presented in front of a U.S. government committee, with testimony in this area proven to be falsified in other instances.
A wikipedia article with weak statistical precedent for accepting the word of a deranged racist cult.
Most of the sources are just the findings of the China Tribunal (already discussed)
We must protest the unjust and inhumane incarceration and oppression of Uyghurs and marginalized groups around the world.
The cited source in this excerpt is a Toronto Star article which cites the China Tribunal again of course, but also states that this is the largest incarceration of a minority group since the Holocaust, despite no evidence of this, with the origin of the million+ number being Adrian Zenz (Director at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, which was established by the U.S. government), who in his initial report for this estimate [https://doi.org/10.1080/02634937.2018.1507997], cites RFA (U.S. government propaganda outlet) four times, and the estimate is only mentioned on (pp. 21-2). Zenz finds this number by roughly extrapolating a “leaked” report by Newsweek Japan (affiliated with Newsweek Inc.). This report comes from “Istekral TV”, which frequently platforms the terrorist organization ETIM. The report was never confirmed. Judging by an RFA report (RFA 2017; p. 22), Zenz states, “while there is no certainty, it is reasonable to speculate that the total number of detainees is between several hundred thousand and just over one million.” This is all that is said regarding this topic. Since then, Zenz as well as everyone else have converted the number (it is quite suitable to multiply it at one’s discretion) into pathology, so that its origins are quite obscured.
I guess we have a different opinion on what constitutes “conspiracy theory garbage”. When multiple reliable sources, including various government agencies, raised the same issue, I think that’s a good enough signal to indicate that the issue is not “conspiracy theory garbage”. I’m actually interested to know why you think the organ harvesting issue is a conspiracy garbage?
There are no reliable sources for this. The only source for all of it is Adrian Zenz a nutcase who says he’s been led by god to rid the world of communism and homosexuality and Rushan Abbas, a literal CIA employee who worked as a torturer at Gitmo.
There are plenty of testimonies and allegations if you search the internet:
Falun Gong is a cult that believes that following their religion makes your body physically healthier because it aligns the metaphysical energies of your body in a special way. This they say means they have the juciest most bestest organs that the Chinese government wants because they’re the BEST GOD DAMN ORGANS around, which is why they actively spread this myth. All of your above sources cite the Falun Gong, or claim that it happened to the Falun Gong such as in your second link:
I strongly urge you to watch this video. It is not a pro-china source, it is a liberal source. I think you might come away from it with many questions and when you start realising that literally every single one of these is coming from, or about, or linked to falun gong in some way it becomes impossible to ignore what the source is.
Wow, this is a rabbit hole and a half. I really can’t agree with you though that all those sources are from the Falun Gong, as many of them talk about this same practice being performed on Uyghurs. Also many of those sources are from doctors who performed the harvests, not from Falun Gong members talking about how it’s happening. A lot of the evidence is circumstantial, pointing to the fact that the Chinese transplant industry boomed in the early 2000s with no real explanation of where all these organs came from. There are no corresponding increases in voluntary donations, and the speed at which these organs are delivered suggests a sort of on demand execution and harvest system.
It’s important to note, the Falun Gong being a cult really doesn’t have any bearing on whether or not China is executing political dissidents for organs to fuel their massive transplant industry. Both “the Falun Gong is a crazy cult” and “China is executing prisoners and selling their organs” can be true.
I can connect all of your sources to an obsession with Falun Gong incredibly easily.
First link: Google the author, Ruth Ingram. This is a fake name used to spread literally nothing but organ harvesting content that ALL mentions Falun Gong.
Second link: Wang Guoqi’s claim is solely about Falun Gong.
Third link: Is just a wikipedia page so we should be tossing this out anyway. Several citations are Falun Gong though.
Fourth link: Relies mainly on presenting ChinaTribunal as a legitimate court tribunal by real courts when it is in fact a propaganda outlet. This “independent tribunal” gets presented as such and its conclusion is dadadadadadadaaaaa - that Falun Gong members are the primary source of organs that China harvests. It then vaguely connects this to Uighurs later in the article but offers literally zero evidence, only accusations.
You will not find anything on this topic that you can disconnect from Falun Gong. It is impossible because Falun Gong is the source of it. I can stick around and enjoy going down this rabbit hole with you though if you want to try, I am quite happy to be a wall you bounce things off, it’s pretty crazy.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/1JaPzJKycxc
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Citing Falun Gong for anything is like citing Scientology for anything. In fact, Scientology is probably more legitimately useful to society.
FWIW Falun Gong advocates for supporting Trump and is anti-vaccine.
Wait, I feel like I missed something here. You surely don’t meant just because falun gong is a cult it justifies the all those killing and organ harvesting?
You’re missing the point. It’s made up by Falun Gong. Because a core component of their uhh… Recruitment… Is making up myths like this that make it look like the Chinese government confirms that following Falun Gong makes you healthier because they want to harvest their healthy healthy top grade organs.
The killing and organ harvesting that Falun Gong claims to have happened? QAnon claims that Trump prevented a coup from Obama and Clinton and fought a cabal of pedophiles.
Cults are built on lies. Why would you trust anything a cult says? They lie about everything.
QAnon didn’t receive attention from the UN though, so falun gong case carry more weight.
If you say falun gong organ harvesting didn’t happen, why don’t you (or other people in this thread that keep denying it) provide any source to prove your point instead of downvoting?
Here’s a question: can you even name another Asian cult?
Turns out, a mostly Western construct whose leadership is mostly dominated by the West doesn’t understand Eastern culture. No one worth a damn in Eastern countries gives a fuck about what Falun Gong says.
If you want a real human rights violation to be outraged by, look at the Muslim crackdown in China. That has actual, verifiable evidence.
How do you expect someone to prove a negative? What sort of evidence would you like that proves that something didn’t happen?
Same way like people accused of murder and organ harvesting defending themselves. Prove that those people are still alive, autopsy proof that the deceased still have their organ intact, etc. Am I supposed to just take your word as truth without asking for proof? That would make just as bad as antivaxers or climate change deniers.
You want someone to… prove a negative? I bet you also believe in God, huh?
All I ask is a reputable source that say all those horrible stuff didn’t happen and so far none of you provides one except for downvotes.
Would you also like a reputable source claiming God doesn’t exist?
The current president of the NED Carl Gershman stated in 1986, “We should not have to do this kind of work covertly. It would be terrible for democratic groups around the world to be seen as subsidized by the C.I.A. We saw that in the 60’s, and that’s why it has been discontinued. We have not had the capability of doing this, and that’s why the endowment was created.”
And Allen Weinstein (founder of the NED) said in 1991, "A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA.”
The Tribunal itself had issues with the accurate handling of testimonies, with a relevant comment in an assessment reading: “Needless to say, the (unsworn) word of one individual is not sufficient to substantiate such a grave allegation, nor is it sufficient to extrapolate it out to the PRC government possessing special genocidal intent forming part of a manifest pattern of destruction directed at the Uyghur population. Reliance on such weak evidence may be a result of the Uyghur Tribunal failing to appoint a (competent) defense counsel for the PRC government.”
The article later cites the China Tribunal, initiated by ETAC, which has Falun Gong (homophobic feudalist cult) members on its committee. The Tribunal faces the same problems of cross examination and no proper opposition representation with the majority of its witnesses being Falun Gong members, and there also being the testimony of a WUC member (problems already discussed):
The OCHR “extreme alarm” bit is nonsense, with the cited article containing no specifics at all, and the full OCHR report being (relatively) (poor).
The second source is the testimony of a doctor. Like the falsified testimony of infanticide in Iraq which partially urged the Iraq War, this is not enough to indict an entire nation, especially with this testimony being presented in front of a U.S. government committee, with testimony in this area proven to be falsified in other instances.
A wikipedia article with weak statistical precedent for accepting the word of a deranged racist cult.
Most of the sources are just the findings of the China Tribunal (already discussed)
The cited source in this excerpt is a Toronto Star article which cites the China Tribunal again of course, but also states that this is the largest incarceration of a minority group since the Holocaust, despite no evidence of this, with the origin of the million+ number being Adrian Zenz (Director at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, which was established by the U.S. government), who in his initial report for this estimate [https://doi.org/10.1080/02634937.2018.1507997], cites RFA (U.S. government propaganda outlet) four times, and the estimate is only mentioned on (pp. 21-2). Zenz finds this number by roughly extrapolating a “leaked” report by Newsweek Japan (affiliated with Newsweek Inc.). This report comes from “Istekral TV”, which frequently platforms the terrorist organization ETIM. The report was never confirmed. Judging by an RFA report (RFA 2017; p. 22), Zenz states, “while there is no certainty, it is reasonable to speculate that the total number of detainees is between several hundred thousand and just over one million.” This is all that is said regarding this topic. Since then, Zenz as well as everyone else have converted the number (it is quite suitable to multiply it at one’s discretion) into pathology, so that its origins are quite obscured.
Please stop spreading this conspiracy theory garbage.
I guess we have a different opinion on what constitutes “conspiracy theory garbage”. When multiple reliable sources, including various government agencies, raised the same issue, I think that’s a good enough signal to indicate that the issue is not “conspiracy theory garbage”. I’m actually interested to know why you think the organ harvesting issue is a conspiracy garbage?
There are no reliable sources for this. The only source for all of it is Adrian Zenz a nutcase who says he’s been led by god to rid the world of communism and homosexuality and Rushan Abbas, a literal CIA employee who worked as a torturer at Gitmo.
Who are your reliable sources?