Pasteurization is pretty effective at killing stuff. That’s literally what it’s meant to do.
Mutations and transmission require a vast array of infections to net appreciable results. I don’t think the rare raw milk drinkers will likely be a huge problem.
Sure, pasteurization works. But then there’s the forest…
A multi-state outbreak of HPAI A(H5N1) bird flu in dairy cows was first reportedon March 25, 2024. This is the first time that these bird flu viruses were found in cattle. CDC confirmed one human HPAI A(H5N1) infection that had exposure to dairy cattle in Texas that were presumed to be infected with the virus. While thought to be rare, this exposure to HPAI A(H5N1) bird flu virus is the first instance of likely mammal to human transmission.
Do they even sell raw milk in stores? I assume you need to get this straight from a farm? And I’m a bit shocked if 4.4 percent of the US is getting their milk from farms. That’s like what ~12million people?
The FDA bans it, so it can’t cross state lines, but they don’t have authority to ban stuff internal to a state. A handful of states allow raw milk from in-state cows to be sold in stores.
Makes me think back to 2016
When a lawmaker fought to legalize raw milk, and got sick when he drank raw milk in celebration of passing the legislation.
They did at whole foods like 15 years ago when I worked there. They pulled it from the shelves I believe because of some new law. A handful of our customers got super mad about it.
Most people get them from farmers’ markets. There are supposedly health advantages to it, but I’d assume this would be the case from buying from a smaller responsible farm over a corporate factory farm anyhow—regardless of whether it’s pasteurized or not.
Yea, they consider it “more healthy” and “more natural” than pasteurized milk. The same kind of people who heal with prayers or crystals and read horoscopes.
That’s crazy. I don’t usually drink milk so I never noticed. But every now and then I will make White Russians. Now I’ll need to keep an eye out. (Or will kahlua and vodka kill this stuff?)
The vast bulk of milk sold is pasteurized. It contains the remains of H5N1 viral DNA – so we know that it’s in the milk supply – but the pasteurization inactivates it. Unless you’re intentionally buying unpasteurized milk, you’re probably using pasteurized milk. From what I’ve read, influenza is very vulnerable to heat, so pasteurization readily affects it.
I doubt that anyone’s tried testing unpasteurized milk mixed drinks.
googles
This says that you can inactivate H5N1 with ethanol-based hand sanitizer, but that it’s comparatively-resistant to it relative to other forms of influenza, FWIW.
Evaluating the stability of highly pathogenic avian influenza viruses on human skin and measuring the effectiveness of disinfectants are crucial for preventing contact disease transmission. We constructed an evaluation model using autopsy skin samples and evaluated factors that affect the stability and disinfectant effectiveness for various subtypes. The survival time of the avian influenza A(H5N1) virus on plastic surfaces was ≈26 hours and on skin surfaces ≈4.5 hours, >2.5-fold longer than other subtypes. The effectiveness of a relatively low ethanol concentration (32%–36% wt/wt) against the H5N1 subtype was substantially reduced compared with other subtypes. Moreover, recombinant viruses with the neuraminidase gene of H5N1 survived longer on plastic and skin surfaces than other recombinant viruses and were resistant to ethanol. Our results imply that the H5N1 subtype poses a higher contact transmission risk because of its higher stability and ethanol resistance, which might depend on the neuraminidase protein.
“EA” here is “ethanol alcohol”
All influenza viruses were completely inactivated (below the detection limit) within 15 seconds by treatment with 40%, 60%, or 80% EA or 70% IPA (log reductions in titers were >4). However, all viruses were not inactivated by 20% EA (log reduction <1). Of note, although all subtypes except for H5N1 were completely inactivated within 15 seconds by 36% EA (log reduction >4), the disinfectant effectiveness of 36% EA against H5N1-Ky and H5N1-Eg was substantially low (log reduction <3) (Table 3; Appendix Table 1).
I don’t know the percentages for mixing a White Russian offhand. WP’s mix for it is:
If you go by that recipe and numbers, then a White Russian could range from 21.5% to 27% ethanol. That won’t be enough to inactivate H5N1 in 15 seconds, at least based on the above research. I don’t know what kind of inactivation time is required to be safe for consumption.
They sell raw milk products at one of the grocery stores near me, but the people interested in raw milk products are very enthusiastic about it and willing to pay a premium to get sick, so the producers don’t hide the lack of pasteurization. It is all over the labels and more expensive than the pasteurized products.
The Food and Drug Administration, meanwhile, has detected genetic traces of H5N1 in roughly 20 percent of commercial milk samples. While commercial milk is still considered safe—pasteurization is expected to destroy the virus and early testing by the FDA and other federal scientists confirms that expectation—the finding suggests yet wider spread of the virus among the country’s milk-producing cows.
TLDR: Pasteurization kills the virus. Which is the point of pasteurization.
According to the FDA it’s most likely safe but can’t be confirmed until actual tests are done.
Do they not teach proper research where you live?
“Because H5N1 has only recently been found in cattle, no studies have directly tested milk pasteurization’s ability to kill the virus, the FDA said in a statement.”
While H5N1 is new and there are no specific tests, pastereuzed milk being tested for all kinds of pathogens has quite a history. There is no reason to assume that H5N1 behaves fundamentally different from any other virus shred by the methods employed.
Yes, but the idea of pasteurisation is to get the amount of surviving microorganisms down to less than one in a million or better (depending on local definitions). The human body can then easily take care of the few remaining viruses.
Any kind of pasteurisation is not about eliminating 100% of MOs. It is always a compromise, but also always on the side of “better safe than sorry”.
That’s the reason why most people drink pasteurized milk. Those who don’t will soon find out about the dangers of raw milk.
Yes, but they will not be the only ones affected. Mutations and transmissions are not so tidy.
Pasteurization is pretty effective at killing stuff. That’s literally what it’s meant to do.
Mutations and transmission require a vast array of infections to net appreciable results. I don’t think the rare raw milk drinkers will likely be a huge problem.
Sure, pasteurization works. But then there’s the forest…
A multi-state outbreak of HPAI A(H5N1) bird flu in dairy cows was first reportedon March 25, 2024. This is the first time that these bird flu viruses were found in cattle. CDC confirmed one human HPAI A(H5N1) infection that had exposure to dairy cattle in Texas that were presumed to be infected with the virus. While thought to be rare, this exposure to HPAI A(H5N1) bird flu virus is the first instance of likely mammal to human transmission.
Certainly not after drinking this stuff
If those tradfluencers could read they’d be very upset.
Do they even sell raw milk in stores? I assume you need to get this straight from a farm? And I’m a bit shocked if 4.4 percent of the US is getting their milk from farms. That’s like what ~12million people?
The FDA bans it, so it can’t cross state lines, but they don’t have authority to ban stuff internal to a state. A handful of states allow raw milk from in-state cows to be sold in stores.
This article has a map.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_raw_milk_debate
Makes me think back to 2016 When a lawmaker fought to legalize raw milk, and got sick when he drank raw milk in celebration of passing the legislation.
https://www.eater.com/2016/3/9/11186922/raw-milk-lawmakers-ill-after-drinking-raw-milk
They did at whole foods like 15 years ago when I worked there. They pulled it from the shelves I believe because of some new law. A handful of our customers got super mad about it.
Most people get them from farmers’ markets. There are supposedly health advantages to it, but I’d assume this would be the case from buying from a smaller responsible farm over a corporate factory farm anyhow—regardless of whether it’s pasteurized or not.
It’s prolly got some shit they’d call pro-biotic, which will help while their gut flora are eating their corpse.
They sure do! And it’s outrageously expensive.
Yea, they consider it “more healthy” and “more natural” than pasteurized milk. The same kind of people who heal with prayers or crystals and read horoscopes.
That’s crazy. I don’t usually drink milk so I never noticed. But every now and then I will make White Russians. Now I’ll need to keep an eye out. (Or will kahlua and vodka kill this stuff?)
Any milk you’re getting at a regular store should be pasteurized.
The vast bulk of milk sold is pasteurized. It contains the remains of H5N1 viral DNA – so we know that it’s in the milk supply – but the pasteurization inactivates it. Unless you’re intentionally buying unpasteurized milk, you’re probably using pasteurized milk. From what I’ve read, influenza is very vulnerable to heat, so pasteurization readily affects it.
I doubt that anyone’s tried testing unpasteurized milk mixed drinks.
googles
This says that you can inactivate H5N1 with ethanol-based hand sanitizer, but that it’s comparatively-resistant to it relative to other forms of influenza, FWIW.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/28/3/21-1752_article
“EA” here is “ethanol alcohol”
I don’t know the percentages for mixing a White Russian offhand. WP’s mix for it is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Russian_(cocktail)
Coffee liqueur doesn’t have a fixed ethanol content.
https://www.liquor.com/best-coffee-liqueurs-5086056
On that page, the coffee liqueurs are 20-35% ethanol ABV.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vodka
That says that vodka is 35–40% ethanol ABV.
If you go by that recipe and numbers, then a White Russian could range from 21.5% to 27% ethanol. That won’t be enough to inactivate H5N1 in 15 seconds, at least based on the above research. I don’t know what kind of inactivation time is required to be safe for consumption.
Yeah, I don’t drink it in 15 seconds. I would think if it sits in stirred alcohol for a few minutes it might help.
But just to be sure, I’ll drink Black Russians instead.
They sell raw milk products at one of the grocery stores near me, but the people interested in raw milk products are very enthusiastic about it and willing to pay a premium to get sick, so the producers don’t hide the lack of pasteurization. It is all over the labels and more expensive than the pasteurized products.
deleted by creator
It’s in pasteurized milk as well.
And is harmless.
Source that it’s harmless?
I expect better from you, lazynooblet
From the linked article:
TLDR: Pasteurization kills the virus. Which is the point of pasteurization.
Pasteurization renders the virus non infectious. Do a search if you are interested.
Source? Have you slept in biology in school? Or don’t they teach things like that where you live?
According to the FDA it’s most likely safe but can’t be confirmed until actual tests are done.
Do they not teach proper research where you live?
“Because H5N1 has only recently been found in cattle, no studies have directly tested milk pasteurization’s ability to kill the virus, the FDA said in a statement.”
While H5N1 is new and there are no specific tests, pastereuzed milk being tested for all kinds of pathogens has quite a history. There is no reason to assume that H5N1 behaves fundamentally different from any other virus shred by the methods employed.
Yes, but the idea of pasteurisation is to get the amount of surviving microorganisms down to less than one in a million or better (depending on local definitions). The human body can then easily take care of the few remaining viruses.
Any kind of pasteurisation is not about eliminating 100% of MOs. It is always a compromise, but also always on the side of “better safe than sorry”.