Human. Reducing humanity to usefulness only makes sense in a dominator model. Domination means extraction of utility from others. Maleness is good not for the reason that men are objects to be used. Maleness is good in itself. Patriarchal masculinity tells the lie that manhood is connected to a man’s usefulness, to his capacity to do violence, to fight wars, to take from those who are weaker or lesser.
I still feel like you’re missing the point. You must be useful in order to survive. Stripping away all human culture, in the wild, an animal that isn’t useful to itself or the group it belongs to is… food for other individuals and groups. Without utility (the ability to hunt/gather, use violence to protect itself, the group, or territory) an organism is… fertilizer. Even plants have utility – convert CO2 to Oxygen & water & fibrous material, procreate, provide habitat or food to other organisms (as a procreation method) – and there’s no patriarchy telling them to be productive or useful.
I’m not sure what sort of utopia you’re arguing in favour of, but I choose to be useful to improve my life for myself, my friends, and society at large. I choose to not be a burden to others wherever possible. I’m happy to pay my taxes and receive benefits in return that improve my life in return – clean water, roads, free education, social programs and healthcare, etc. I’m also happy that my taxes help provide these things who can’t immediately contribute to pay for these things – because having basic needs met serves as a foundation for society to grow and build upon.
The topic is about being pressured to feel like a “useful man”, which is a central concept of patriarchal masculinity. It’s great that you are a responsible person. But you are the one missing the point here.
I suppose I don’t get the idea that people are feeling ‘pressure’ that isn’t a normal and natural part of merely being alive. Unless you’re an animal in a zoo, where your needs are met automagically by a benevolent altruistic force that wants nothing in return, the pressure comes in the form of being hungry and wanting food, being cold and wanting warmth, being outside and wanting a structure to live inside.
@TemporaryBoyfriend
Human. Reducing humanity to usefulness only makes sense in a dominator model. Domination means extraction of utility from others. Maleness is good not for the reason that men are objects to be used. Maleness is good in itself. Patriarchal masculinity tells the lie that manhood is connected to a man’s usefulness, to his capacity to do violence, to fight wars, to take from those who are weaker or lesser.
I still feel like you’re missing the point. You must be useful in order to survive. Stripping away all human culture, in the wild, an animal that isn’t useful to itself or the group it belongs to is… food for other individuals and groups. Without utility (the ability to hunt/gather, use violence to protect itself, the group, or territory) an organism is… fertilizer. Even plants have utility – convert CO2 to Oxygen & water & fibrous material, procreate, provide habitat or food to other organisms (as a procreation method) – and there’s no patriarchy telling them to be productive or useful.
I’m not sure what sort of utopia you’re arguing in favour of, but I choose to be useful to improve my life for myself, my friends, and society at large. I choose to not be a burden to others wherever possible. I’m happy to pay my taxes and receive benefits in return that improve my life in return – clean water, roads, free education, social programs and healthcare, etc. I’m also happy that my taxes help provide these things who can’t immediately contribute to pay for these things – because having basic needs met serves as a foundation for society to grow and build upon.
@TemporaryBoyfriend
The topic is about being pressured to feel like a “useful man”, which is a central concept of patriarchal masculinity. It’s great that you are a responsible person. But you are the one missing the point here.
I suppose I don’t get the idea that people are feeling ‘pressure’ that isn’t a normal and natural part of merely being alive. Unless you’re an animal in a zoo, where your needs are met automagically by a benevolent altruistic force that wants nothing in return, the pressure comes in the form of being hungry and wanting food, being cold and wanting warmth, being outside and wanting a structure to live inside.
@TemporaryBoyfriend
“do you feel like your worth as a man is related to your practical utility?”
Where in your post do you talk about worth and how self-value is gendered?
Why are you acting like we are cavemen?