• Wogi@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    UBI is a bandaid, and not a very good one.

    Sure, having more money absolutely makes life easier. I’m not disputing that and no one with any sense would. But it doesn’t address the numerous problems it seeks to.

    But you touched on the problem, adequate controls are needed. We can do adequate controls without UBI.

    The problem with UBI is that when you do big payouts like that, they just become a target for price gouging. Everyone knows there’s extra money to be had and they’re going to want their cut. Your landlord is going to know exactly how much extra you’re making and without rent control there’s nothing stopping him from taking it. The best way to prevent that is to force him to compete for tenants.

    So wait, why isn’t he competing for tenants now?

    Additional housing fixes the rent problem. UBI puts a temporary bandaid on it.

    Universal healthcare fixes the medical expenses problem, strong unionization fixes the wages problem.

    Don’t get me wrong I’d love the paycheck, but it isn’t the solution people think it is.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      The problem with UBI is that when you do big payouts like that, they just become a target for price gouging.

      If you have robust laws preventing price gouging, that is not a problem. No one serious is suggesting implementing UBI with no framework around it.

      Incidentally, Alaska has a universal basic income in the form of oil dividends every year and there’s no evidence it’s led to price gouging as far as I know.

      • Wogi@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        A few thousand dollars a year is an order of magnitude different than a few thousand dollars a month. Shits already expensive in Alaska because it’s remote.

        Incidentally a handful of studies are several orders of magnitude different than actual UBI, and would similarly fail to showcase the problem.

          • Wogi@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Robust laws also prevent the need for UBI in the first place. If we can’t figure out how to run a society without it, slapping UBI on top of that isn’t actually going to fix anything.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              You’re making no sense. How is giving everyone the financial help to keep them clothed, housed, fed, etc. without needing to work for it not going to fix anything as long as you prevent price gouging?

              • Wogi@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                Ok, let me recontextualize here. “if we can terraform mars, why wouldn’t we migrate because of climate change on earth?” In that scenario, why wouldn’t we fix our climate?

                If we have the power to regulate pricing, why would we need UBI?

                It’s socialism with extra steps. You can just do regular socialism, you don’t need to enshitify socialism with capitalism. You really don’t.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  If we have the power to regulate pricing, why would we need UBI?

                  Because no matter how low priced something is, someone who has no job still can’t afford it.

                  • Wogi@lemmy.world
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                    8 months ago

                    So, provide the necessary things. Provide housing, medical care, and clothing to anyone that wants it, doing so will probably be necessary for price controls anyway. I’m not saying those things should be unobtainable. I’m saying UBI is a dumb way to go about providing them.

        • corsicanguppy
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          8 months ago

          Incidentally a handful of studies are several orders of magnitude different than actual UBI, and would similarly fail to showcase the problem.

          Yes, perfect is indeed the enemy of adequate, and UBI seems imperfect as long as you can invalidate the studies. If you need help, there are easy talking points from your local Conservative bootstraps trickle-down rep.

          Do you agree with

          • a dividend while you’re injured?
          • Paying into a central fund so you get a retirement like union people get?
          • paying a few dollars more for a fund to help retrain people laid-off from a line or a mill or some artificially dying sector?
          • paying property tax for a staffed fire station you should never need to use?

          The first three examples are UBI by another name. The last example is proof that providing support doesnt lead to abuse; unless lighting your house on fire is sport in your town!

          But maybe those studies are flawed, like climate change models and laws of quantum physics. But those turned out to be close or too conservative (climate) or were refined with added study (physics). A UBI plan, like any other, isn’t set in stone; who hid that from you when you first heard of UBI, and why?

    • corsicanguppy
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      8 months ago

      Universal healthcare fixes the medical expenses problem

      It also fixes the “I can’t quit my job because then I lose what little healthcare access I have and why is the CEO laughing” problem.

    • cqst@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      8 months ago

      Universal Basic Income reduced child poverty by 30%.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_tax_credit#United_States

      By making the child tax credit non-refundable it is effectively a Negative Income Tax which is a form of UBI.

      ‘Additional housing fixes the rent problem. UBI puts a temporary bandaid on it. Universal healthcare fixes the medical expenses problem, strong unionization fixes the wages problem. Don’t get me wrong I’d love the paycheck, but it isn’t the solution people think it is.’

      All of your points misunderstand what the goal of UBI is. By guaranteeing that everyone earns a certain amount of income, the government is garaunteeing a basic standard of living. So a CTC of $3600 means that everyone is guaranteeed an income of at least $3600.

      At first, there will be an inital raise in prices as a UBI will likely increases aggregate demand which will increase prices, but eventually prices would stabilize.

      Of course, this only helps people with children right now, and there are barriers to filing a tax return in the United States. But the laws could be change to expand the credit, and it’s completely possible for the United States to implement return free filing.