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PREFACE
Let me start by saying that I am not a centrist. I am not arguing that you should be a centrist or independent. I am arguing against mischaracterization of others.
Much of what I see here in Lemmy against centrism or Independents is made up of bad strawman arguments largely consisting of: “There are three types of people: reasonable people who agree with me, crazy fascists, and lily-livered wimps who can’t pick a side (and are also fascists)!”
The other (also poorly thought out and blatantly strawmanned) argument I see over and over here when discussing this topic consists of:
Left Wing: “Let’s not kill trans people.”
Right Wing: “Let’s kill all trans people.”
Centrists: “Let’s kill some trans people.”
THE CRUX
If someone says that they are “centrist” they are not telling you that they base all of their opinions on being dead-centre in the middle of any two positions. That would be an astoundingly stupid position to undertake.
They are telling you that they agree with neither major party on everything, and find that both parties have views that they don’t agree with. It’s pretty easy to come to that conclusion because the US two-party system packs in an almost incoherent mishmash of beliefs into exactly two sides (or 2.5 sides if you’re from Canada).
There is absolutely no contradiction in being for police reform, and against riots lasting for days. There is no contradiction in being for gun rights, while also wanting massive limits on them. There is no contradiction in wanting functional government services including universal healthcare, and thinking that free markets can be made effective. There is no contradiction in wanting a more balanced budget, and government services to be funded properly.
The idea that there are only two sides in politics is a strange delusion created by the two-party system.
Now, I have been trying on Lemmy for months. I have frequently encountered wilful misunderstandings about centrists / independents. I have frequently seen discussions state that they feel these groups are all secretly right wing and just won’t admit it, which is wild to me.
AND ONE MORE THING
In my estimation, the reason Lemmy members often run into situations like this is because they don’t witness the centrist also vehemently argue with right-wing policies frequently.
The posters only see the arguments with them and therefore have a skewed view of centrists / independents and their politics. In short, if you are left wing, and argue for left-wing policies in every case, that means you will also be argued with by somebody who believes political nuance and not just waving a party flag.
Remember, the right wing also shits on centrists because they think they are secretly left-wing since they argue with their stupider points as well. So no, these people are not secretly right-wing and just don’t have the balls to say it. That is a horrendous take no matter where you fall on the political spectrum and only serves to limit conversation.
One could make the argument that wanting the status quo is an inherently conservative position, no?
This is generally true which leads to some really counter-intuitive-to-Americans things like Scandinavian conservatives being against/for reducing immigration (as expected) but basically in favour of what many Americans would consider nanny state-like social welfare policies. That said I do think conservative tends to have a “smaller government, business-favoring” bend in general no matter where you go but that could be not entirely right.
Whenever talking to my European friends I always try to explain that our(American) conservatives are their far-right and our democrats are a lot closer to their conservatives/centrist parties. It really helps keep things straight.
Really, as we’ve seen in the last few years, American conservatives aren’t even really for “smaller government” with how many policies they’ve put forward that ostensibly increase state meddling in people’s lives.
Yeah, I actually suspect it could be possible that people who are more dedicated to libertarian than right wing politics could break away from the conservatives at some point. There are some odd shifts on the verge of happening in American politics right now. (Ex: Asian/Latino conservatives becoming more of a thing, Democrats aligning more support m with business. You even see bizarre stuff like the right courting labour/Union votes in the Midwest which is not one I had on my bingo card).
Tbf the right courting labor unions shouldn’t ever work if the people they are courting have any brains…I guess if they wanna go with the angle of “immigrants will replace you as laborers at your jobs” they might have a chance, but even then…
At the same time I think the folly of the left is in taking its traditional allies for granted - whether they have brains or not they may switch if they feel neglected enough.