Maryland House Democrats introduced a controversial gun safety bill requiring gun owners to forfeit their ability to wear or carry without firearm liability insurance.

Introduced by Del. Terri Hill, D-Howard County, the legislation would prohibit the “wear or carry” of a gun anywhere in the state unless the individual has obtained a liability insurance policy of at least $300,000.

"A person may not wear or carry a firearm unless the person has obtained and it covered by liability insurance issued by an insurer authorized to do business in the State under the Insurance Article to cover claims for property damage, bodily injury, or death arising from an accident resulting from the person’s use or storage of a firearm or up to $300,000 for damages arising from the same incident, in addition to interest and costs,” the proposed Maryland legislation reads.

    • PopMyCop@iusearchlinux.fyi
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      10 months ago

      It will be low. Super low. $300k is pocket change when the incidence for gun carriers to use them is extremely low. It’s why we can constantly mock the tacti-cool warriors for thinking they need a gun on them at all times. Plus, the insurance company has way more flexibility in proving their client was not at fault in the incident compared to the shenanigans they have to pull now for car wrecks.

      • MagicShel@programming.dev
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        10 months ago

        It’s hard to imagine a reasonable objection, then. I don’t trust insurance companies very much, but if there’s one thing they do well, it’s associating risk with cost.

      • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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        10 months ago

        It’s why we can constantly mock the tacti-cool warriors for thinking they need a gun on them at all times.

        That’s doesn’t make sense. We mock them for thinking they’re in danger without a gun. Insurance is for the danger they create by carrying a gun.

        • kautau@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          thinking they need a gun on them at all times

          thinking they’re in danger without a gun

          Yes, that’s what was said

    • Steve@startrek.website
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      10 months ago

      Its cheap because theres almost no risk. Tiger attack insurance is very cheap in the US too.

      So whats the point? Insurance cant possibly solve any actual problems associated with gun violence.

      • jennwiththesea@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        I would bet that tiger attack insurance for someone who brings a tiger with then in public would be astronomical.

        The point is to put the burden of cost where it actually belongs. Instead of society footing the bill, now gun owners will pay into an insurance system that will cover costs in the event of damage.

        • Steve@startrek.website
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          10 months ago

          Ok, I’ll try a better analogy. Why not require fist-punching insurance for anyone who wants to take their hands out in public?

          • jennwiththesea@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Personal liability insurance exists. It’s often included in home or renter’s insurance. If someone knows they’re likely to end up in a lawsuit because they love punching people, it would behoove them to get that.

            But the damage that can be done by a pair of fists is often a low enough dollar number (and jail time) that it can reasonably be paid by the person owning them. A broken orbital socket is a hell of a lot cheaper than, say, three people’s lives. There’s also unlikely to be collateral damage with fists, since they can only travel so far. Most people can’t pay for the damages in a shooting event, and right now that cost is instead being covered by taxpayers.

            Insurance isn’t for the small things, like a broken window or punching someone. It’s for very expensive, sometimes catastrophic damage.

            • GooseFinger@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Well, CCW insurance really only covers legal costs associated with CCW use. Unfortunately in some states, it’s entirely possible (and in some states likely!) that someone who uses their firearm in self defense can get charged with a crime or sued by their attackers, regardless of how justified their use of force was.

              I’m aware of some policies that cover third party damages like hospital bills and property damage, but the victims in this case are never held liable anyway.

              So am I missing something? Especially given that practically all gun violence and deaths come from suicide and organized crime, how does this bill help anyone? CCW holders are statistically much less likely to break laws than those who don’t have a license, these people really shouldn’t worry anyone. This reeks of political posturing to me.

              Edit: Just read that the law requires bodily harm and property damage coverage, so nevermind. The only scenario where the CCW holder would be liable for those damages is if their use of force isn’t justified, so I’m still not sure how this helps anyone.

      • MagicShel@programming.dev
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        10 months ago

        That’s certainly what I’ve been told. The statistics look a little sketchy to me on that front, but I’m not a mathematician and insurance companies will surely do a better analysis than anyone on this thread.

        • GooseFinger@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          The only sure thing is that insurance companies will try to make as much money off this as possible, especially if it becomes required by law to have.

          • RecallMadness@lemmy.nz
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            10 months ago

            Don’t some states have laws about profitability caps on insurance?

            There were stories of some insurance companies refunding policy holders during COVID due to excess profits.

          • MagicShel@programming.dev
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            10 months ago

            That’s where competition is important. Get a bunch of insurers in the market and the profits they leech will be minimal. But health insurance is a fucking debacle over profits, so I definitely hear your concern.

            • agitatedpotato@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Ask Floridians looking for flood or even just normal home insurance how competition is working for them.

              • MagicShel@programming.dev
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                10 months ago

                The problem there is insuring housing isn’t financially viable because climate change has made it too costly to mass-build houses as often as they are destroyed. That’s not really similar to the gun violence marketplace.

                The idea her is if folks can persuade insurance companies that they are stable and responsible enough, insurance for them will be cheap. Meanwhile folks with domestic violence records or violent felonies would be priced out of having a gun or at least have the ability to bear the financial burden if something goes wrong. This is by no means a great solution, but 2A absolutists have the supreme court and the law is essentially that reasonable regulation isn’t possible.

                Until that changes, I’ll accept a market solution.

      • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
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        10 months ago

        Well insurance companies might deny coverage for people with a documented past of mental illness or violent behavior, which is more due diligence than many states are apparently putting in.

        I mean it’s fucked and the proper solution should of course be regulation and proper background checks should not be too much to expect, but if everything has to be a “free market” masquerade then that would still be better than nothing (though I agree not by very much).

        • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          That’s still not going to stop any crimes. They still have the right to buy it, if they can pass the background check. If they want to commit a crime with it, the fact that it’s illegal to do so without insurance means nothing and prevents nothing.

          • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
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            10 months ago

            Yeah, that’s the typical “but murder is already illegal!” pro-gun argument. I don’t think insurance policies are a good solution, but if it at least prevents the “mostly law-abiding citizen with anger issues who will use a gun against someone if given an excuse, but is too much of a pussy to carry one around illegally” from getting a gun, then that’s better than nothing.

            • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              You still don’t seem to understand that this would not prevent anyone from getting a gun. It would not, read up on the details.

              • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
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                10 months ago

                I can read. My point is that lots of people buy a gun specifically to carry it in public. If they know they are uninsurable and won’t be able to carry it without getting into legal trouble (assuming there is a dissuasive penalty for illegally carrying… which is doubtful), they might not get a gun.

                Sure, you can make up a lot a scenarios where this law is completely ineffective but you also can’t pretend that it necessarily won’t have any effect.

      • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Well the liability aspect does include some risk.

        It also depends if it’s on the weapon or person.

        Specifically if the gun insured is used in a crime or to cause see harm. It doesn’t have to be the most extreme scenario.

        If it’s per gun, that could easily be hundreds or thousands per month per gun hoarder.

      • bufalo1973@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        Now think about any of the school shootings and the amount of guns they used. Do you see a kid buying some guns AND having to have an insurance?

      • MagicShel@programming.dev
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        10 months ago

        Free market pricing. Requiring someone to be indemnified when they are taking on risk greater than they could ever hope to repay if something goes wrong seems perfectly reasonable to me.