They would require psychiatrists, endocrinologists and medical ethicists to have roles in creating facility-wide gender-affirming care plans for patients of all ages. Patients under 21 would have to receive at least six months of mental health counseling before starting gender-affirming medication or surgery. Providers would be barred from referring minors to treatment elsewhere, such as clinics in other states.
I am fairly pro-transgender rights with some exceptions.
If anyone has read my prior post, I have always said a psychiatrist or endocrinologist should be involved with transgender people.
The law to me is a good thing. I don’t agree with the below 21, it should be 18.
I also don’t agree with the referring clause. That is good medicine to refer people to other doctors and sometimes they are outside your state.
“It is a policy project that attempts to make it so onerous, so restrictive to get care, that people are functionally unable to do so,” said Kellan Baker, executive director of the Whitman-Walker Institute, a Washington-based organization focused on the health of LGBTQ+ people.
Just like our immigration policy. Make it super difficult and say “well I don’t have a problem with it if they do it legally.”
I think a lot of people are really worried that there’s a huge organized plan by liberal woke trans nonbinaries intent on tricking as many people and children (please won’t someone think of the children!) as possible into gender reassignment. This doesn’t make any sense tho because the only ones who would profit from such a scheme is the for-profit healthcare and big pharma, but leftists are largely mad at them.
It’s nothing more than a big moral panic about a very small and politically powerless minority. God bless America.
People who are considering gender reassignment surgery definitely need these services. But if the hoops are too much for providers to adequately meet, thereby effectively banning procedures; that’s another problem.
Ultimately if you trust your doctor enough to perform a sex change and your doctor seems you mentally fit for such an operation, it’s my opinion the state should stay out of it
Just like our immigration policy. Make it super difficult and say “well I don’t have a problem with it if they do it legally.”
We approve one million green cards every year. Its not difficult, its just rate limited.
Uh huh, according to boundless.com the process can take up to 3 years. For someone in distress and in need of medical care, how long of a wait list do you think is reasonable?
According to the article, there are not enough endocrinologists to go around, so this requirement effectively bottle-necks the process.
So here are my challenge questions to those who believe strongly in small government, individualism and a free market economy:
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Why are legislators making decisions about people’s medical care and increasing bureaucracy, when this can be seen as an assault on individualism,and an attack on citizens freedom and liberty? Do lawmakers somehow know better than doctors? Might there be different decisions necessary for best care on a case by case basis?
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if we believe Milton Friedman that the free market is the most efficient at doing everything, again why are legislators trying to artificially force the invisible hand of the market? It must be that American healthcare is already operating at peak efficiency so what gives?
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How is it that, as a group of people who got super triggered about being forced to get a vaccination, angry about being discouraged from treating themselves with ivermectin and loudly insisting they can make their own choices about their own bodies, people can so easily turn around and approve such a plan as requiring 6 months of mental health counseling before receiving treatment that is proven to provide relief?
My questions point out that these provisions are not consistent with professed conservative thinking. There’s a word for people who say one thing but do something different. Still I think there’s another answer for this apparent disparity.
Here’s the answer: like with abortion, it has nothing to do with saving children or morality, it is about maintaining control and perpetuating hierarchy by denying rights and privileges to anyone who is not part of the in-group. Such efforts are always disguised as “concern for children” or" tradition" or “preserving our culture”.
The most effective mask used by those who want to keep control and conserve oppressive power structures is the Moral Panic. Whether it is rock-n-roll, drugs or the satanic panic of the 80’s its always the exaggerated and terrifying fear that some thing or group is somehow able to destroy all of human society and civilization. It gets played up in the media and someone says “there outta be a law!”
So let’s be real about this: neither feminism, the devil’s music nor marijuana were able to erode the morality of the nation. Gay marriage did not result in people marrying their cows or cars as was suggested in the 90’s The war on Christmas was never a thing. Trans people getting timely and effective health care are not going to cause an epidemic among America’s youth and make all the boys girls and all the girls boys who will chant critical race theory slogans and burn down every courthouse in the USA. Stop your hand-wringing.
uch a plan as requiring 6 months of mental health counseling before receiving treatment that is proven to provide relief?
For children. If given the wrong treatment, the child can have permanent side effects. The 6 month period is not for adults.
and it isn’t proven .That is why Europe has put new restrictions around it because the evidence is weak.
Seems reasonable. But then doctors seem pretty quick to diagnose and write prescriptions for ADHD, and a casual glance at WebMD tells me the long term risks include high blood pressure, seizures and irregular heartbeat. Seems bad, maybe kids with ADHD should have mandatory mental health counseling before getting these dangerous drugs. Does that sound overly cautious?
So then let me ask you why then does this small portion of the population with an uncommon condition deserve so much scrutiny, so much media attention, so much legislation?
Ask a conservative, who knows what’s best for a child? The parents, or the government? Ask any reasonable person, who should help parents make decisions about a child’s treatment, a healthcare professional, or a bureaucrat? For any other medical issue, the answer would be parents and a doctor. But for this issue everything is turned upside down. Why is that?
So then let me ask you why then does this small portion of the population with an uncommon condition deserve so much scrutiny, so much media attention, so much legislation?
The small group is demanding rights that infringe on the rights of others. That is why it is getting so much attention.
Remember the riot in LA over “trans woman” who turned out to be a sexual predator?
Also, I think ADHD medication should only be given by a psychiatrist as well.
If you think this is the only condition that is facing scrutiny then you should look at opioids. The laws are confusing as to who and when they can be prescribed. I used to be able to hand them out like candy. Since I don’t actively practice anymore, I would not a refresher before trying to prescribe any opioids. That has mainly been regulated to a pain management doctor.
The small group is demanding rights that infringe on the rights of others. That is why it is getting so much attention.
Really? I don’t see evidence of that. I believe the vast majority of this minority just want to live their lives and be able to take a piss in peace. Whose rights are being infringed? I’m not aware of trans people demanding any special privileges. They want the rights that everybody else have, nothing more.
I suspect some people would bring up sports as a part of the unfairness of trans existence, but that is not convincing to me. Let the free market handle that: if people don’t want to see trans athletes, then they can choose not to buy tickets to those events.
Remember the riot in LA over “trans woman” who turned out to be a sexual predator?
Remember that one time? Since the beginning of this year, 74 people have been killed and 91 injured in mass shootings of 4 or more victims in the United States. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2024
Should we make gun purchase dependant on 6 months of mental health counseling?
But that one time a trans woman changed her clothes in a gym locker room and people went apeshit? Even tho the LAPD said no crime had been reported, somebody tryin to change their clothes -in a locker room for crying out loud- is a sexual predator and we should have a riot and legislate the shit out of every trans in America because think of the children. Moral Panic.
It would have been less controversial if she had pulled out a gun and shot a bunch of people rather than try to change out of her gym clothes. God bless America.
Really? I don’t see evidence of that.
Really? You do not hear about the issues with trans women and bathrooms?!?! You haven’t see the debates around trans women competing in sports that cause women to lose scholarships and awards?
Remember that one time? Since the beginning of this year, 74 people have been killed and 91 injured in mass shootings of 4 or more victims in the United States
Why are you talking about guns? They have zero to do with the topic.
It wasn’t a trans woman, it was a man claiming to be trans because he was a sexual predator.
Even tho the LAPD said no crime had been reported,
That is incorrect.
On August 30, 2021, a 52-year-old individual, mostly reported as a trans woman,[i] was charged by the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s office with five counts of felony indecent exposure in connection with the incident, corresponding to the five individuals who’d filed complaints in July. An arrest warrant was issued for said individual.[4][28]
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For any other medical issue, the answer would be parents and a doctor.
Should parents be able to get their kids lobotomies so long as they can find someone willing to perform them?
Or what about blood-letting, or leeching, or any of the other outdated medical procedures that people don’t do anymore? Should parents sacrifice their child to Satan provided they can find an authorized official of the church of Satan to perform the sacrifice? Should parents send their kids to troubled teen camps where they will be abused and possibly killed? Should parents sell their children into slavery?
For these and other parenting questions, I recommend that conservative christians follow biblical principles, starting with prayer, reading and meditating on psalms127:3 and Ephesians 6:4, and carefully considering the best interests of the child.
It is important to remember that children do not benefit when parents harden their hearts against them. Children are only driven away by such hardness. Children need more than just food and shelter to grow strong and healthy. Part of providing for children is giving them kindness, love, attention and support. What does the Bible say about those who don’t provide for their families? We can read 1Timothy 5:8 to find out. I hope this helps answer your question.
We still use leeches and blood letting in medicine.
Leeches are mainly used for microsurgery.
Hemochromatosis is still treated by… blood letting.
I kept writing up different answers, kept erasing them and rewriting them, so here, I hope it helps.
If someone is in distress and in need of medical care, they should go to a local ER instead of immigrating.
Abortion is murder. You will not change my mind.
Government healthcare like the VA, and like the UK and Canada is bad, more government healthcare will not be a good thing.
Y’all set the precedent with the vaccine. Now we get to regulate that shit. If you don’t like it, stop establishing bad precedents. Also, adults get to fuck their lives up if they want. Minors need guidance. That’s the difference.
It won’t cause an epidemic, the epidemic is already here, but it’s part of a much larger mental health epidemic.
Thanks for taking the time to answer. I think I haven’t seen you post in here much lately, so I hope this means you have more free time.
There’s a couple things about your reply:
If someone is in distress and in need of medical care, they should go to a local ER instead of immigrating.
I was not saying people should be able to immigrate quickly to get health care. I’m saying that having a mandatory waiting period regardless of circumstance is not good policy. For immigration, perhaps it’s unavoidable. For healthcare, it’s nonsensical.
Abortion is murder. You will not change my mind.
Ok I won’t argue about that. I wonder about contraception tho, is it also murder? Republicans have been on the move to restrict that too, even though it seems to me it would prevent abortions. This is off topic sorry.
Government healthcare like the VA, and like the UK and Canada is bad, more government healthcare will not be a good thing.
I’m not sure what this has to do with what I was asking. If you believe government involvement in healthcare is bad, then why is it good for the Ohio legislature to get involved in healthcare?
Y’all set the precedent with the vaccine. Now we get to regulate that shit. If you don’t like it, stop establishing bad precedents.
I don’t understand this. Does this mean, you did it, now we can do it? Like, are you saying forced vaccination was a bad thing, and so now we get to do a bad thing? That can’t be it but I’m not sure how else to interpret this.
It won’t cause an epidemic, the epidemic is already here, but it’s part of a much larger mental health epidemic.
Well I think the epidemic you are worried about is probably a frightening exaggeration of the mundane and unremarkable truth, largely driven by the media you consume. Trans people are such a minority, they are not a threat. There’s no danger that a large fraction of boys in America are going to trade in their baseball bats and gloves for dresses and makeup.
I think I haven’t seen you post in here much lately, so I hope this means you have more free time.
Oh yeah, after Karo/Kaiju got me banned from .world a little while ago, I started touching grass more. I took it as a reminder that I need to unwind and get away from the screen. Funny thing, I haven’t had nearly the same amount of reports or had to take as many mod actions since I got banned, so I’m taking it as a win.
I was not saying people should be able to immigrate quickly to get health care. I’m saying that having a mandatory waiting period regardless of circumstance is not good policy. For immigration, perhaps it’s unavoidable. For healthcare, it’s nonsensical.
Oh, that makes more sense. Personally, that should be between a consenting adult and the doctor, but I can kinda see why the law exists, with the same dumb logic that a waiting period to buy guns is. I don’t agree with it, but I can see the logic behind it.
If you believe government involvement in healthcare is bad, then why is it good for the Ohio legislature to get involved in healthcare?
I believe that it should only to the extent to protect people from stuff like malpractice and bad insurance and whatnot, but minors need more protection. I think for Ohio, it’s just restricting minors from mutilating themselves. An adult can screw up their lives, but minors need more guidance.
I don’t understand this. Does this mean, you did it, now we can do it? Like, are you saying forced vaccination was a bad thing, and so now we get to do a bad thing? That can’t be it but I’m not sure how else to interpret this.
I think you think it’s a bad thing, that’s what I was getting at. And personally, I’m somewhat divided on it myself.
Well I think the epidemic you are worried about is probably a frightening exaggeration of the mundane and unremarkable truth, largely driven by the media you consume. Trans people are such a minority, they are not a threat. There’s no danger that a large fraction of boys in America are going to trade in their baseball bats and gloves for dresses and makeup.
The mental health epidemic is a large umbrella. There’s a lot more autism, adhd, bipolar, and gender dysphoria in these past few years. 1.4% of teens are trans for example, compared to 0.5% of adults. Sure, there’s more acceptance and better diagnoses, but personally I think that there’s a bigger issue at play here. (Or issues.) I’m not worry about femboys or tomboys, just worried about young people in general.
Sure, there’s more acceptance and better diagnoses, but personally I think that there’s a bigger issue at play here. Acceptance is down.
I think the sports issue is what is driving acceptance down.
My best friend is trans, she thought all her conservative friends would freak out but none of us cared. The only issue we run into is she thinks it’s transphobic we would never date her. We should not be shamed for our preferences. Just as she should not be shamed for hers.
Acceptance is down.
I kinda wonder if the criteria (or whatever term) is changing. Like what would’ve been considered acceptance ten years ago isn’t considered acceptance now.
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Make it super difficult and say “well I don’t have a problem with it if they do it legally.”
You think going to a person who specializes in hormones is difficult?
I strongly disagree. Would you let your primary doctor do a heart transplant on you? Would you let them do a colonoscopy? I wouldn’t. You go to the right doctor for the job.
Well to be fair, I have never been to an endocrinologist nor sought treatment for gender dysphoria. But I wonder, is this legislation necessary? I think it was written from the perspective of someone who believes young people are deciding over breakfast “I want to be a girl now,” or “I want to be a boy now,” and have changed their wardrobe and gotten hormone injections that afternoon. I don’t believe it happens like that.
But I wonder, is this legislation necessary Since liberals love the Nordic countries, this is more liberal than the Nordic model.
Now I would like to see only the endocrinologist prescribing the hormones and the psychiatrist doing the evaluation. I have not seen the written law to see if they make that distinction.
hormone injections that afternoon. I don’t believe it happens like that. It happens like that very often. When my friend decided to transition, she went to the clinic and was out in under an hour with hormones. PP even praised on their website you can be in and out in under an hour with hormones.
To be clear that law doesn’t stop that for adults. They can still do that.
If my primary care doctor wouldn’t perform open heart surgery because he’d lose his license after he killed me. But if my doctor is qualified to perform a procedure and I am deemed of fit mind to consent to it, why should the state have any say?
That would be an endocrinologist unless we want to ignore training.
I thought these restrictions were already in place, psychiatrists and endocrinologists are already required within the transgender process.
Besides, transgender surgery has an incredibly low regret rate, there doesn’t seem to be any point in new restrictions except to make it more difficult for people to access their chosen medical care.
Protect The Children! Right? It was about Protecting The Children? RIGHT?
You have some obsession with children.
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This makes sense. Let adults fuck themselves up, but kids need guidance.
I have no issue with a psychiatrist or an endocrinologist being involved even for adults. I think that is logical. You are jacking with hormones and that is what an endocrinologist does.
Everyone wants in on the action because it’s a cash cow. Most of this is paid for out of pocket.
I do not think it is overbearing to make sure the right specialists are involved.
Kids are different. We need to let them go through puberty first since most outgrow this in puberty. I haven’t seen any recent research but it use to be in the high 80-90% outgrow it.
If an adult has talked to the proper people and they agree on treatment, let them go at it. I am all for body autonomy. I am pro-choice for the same reason. An adult should be free to do what they want with their body with the proper experts assisting.
Kids are different. We need to let them go through puberty first since most outgrow this in pubert
Wtf. This is the most wrong and incredibly harmful thing you could propose. Going through the wrong puberty is exactly what causes so much distress in trans people. You people talk about not wanting kids to have irreversible things done, but then suggest they go through the puberty that will make it virtually impossible to pass as their identified gender? How absolutely fucking cruel.
And your 80% number outgrowing it is so absolutely wrong it’s laughable. The regret rate for trans procedures is in the low single digit percentages
your 80% number outgrowing it is so absolutely wrong it’s laughable.
You have a cite for that ?
You want me to disprove your made up numbers? That’s not how proof or evidence or citations work
It’s reported in every academic citation. I can cite my source. You’re the first person to ever claim it’s a false number. So let’s see your cite.
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This is pretty well known to the people who have experience with this. Also it’s a bad faith to ask for common knowledge to be cited. Next you’ll want the sky is blue cited. It’s why Europe is changing how they deal with transgender children.
Eleven studies have been conducted looking at whether gender dysphoria persists throughout childhood. On average 80% of children change their minds and do not continue into adulthood as transgender
For decades, follow-up studies of transgender kids have shown that a substantial majority – anywhere from 65 to 94 percent – eventually ceased to identify as transgender.
A psychiatrist who has presided over youth gender transition treatments for more than a decade says “four out of five” gender-questioning children eventually accept their bodies if no medical interventions are carried out
