- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
You must log in or # to comment.
No purpose for this other than the collective punishment of civilians. Israel is a rogue state fully backed by the US.
from this reddit post
That’s a road, do you actually think they would put buildings there and make it all walking and bicycling friendly? Why not just a big ass highway right through the residential area?
Removed by mod
@DarkGamer that’s a bit of a misconception. They’re not legal targets according to most international law experts. Eg
Even when civilian housing may be used by combatants to take shelter, as alleged in the attacks on the Jabalia refugee camp, launching attacks on entire apartment blocks is prohibited if they will lead to disproportionate damage, death and displacement of a large number of civilians, the UN expert warned.
“No asserted right of self-defence under international law can cover such attacks,” he said. “This is particularly the case when the right of self-defence is asserted in the context of an occupation.”
Article 8 of the Rome statute, which established the international criminal court (ICC) in The Hague, defines a long list of war crimes including “intentionally directing attacks against buildings dedicated to religion, education, art, science or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals and places where the sick and wounded are collected”. 05
But it makes an exception if the targets are “military objectives”. Philip-Gay said that “if a civilian hospital is used for acts harmful to the enemy, that is the legal term used”, the hospital can lose its protected status under international law and be considered a legitimate target. Nevertheless, if there is doubt as to whether a hospital is a military objective or being used for acts harmful to the enemy, the presumption, under international humanitarian law, is that it is not.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/17/can-hospitals-be-military-targets-international-law-israel-gaza-al-shifaSounds like it depends on what one considers disproportionate, what one considers an occupation, (Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in 2005,) and whether Israel can prove these targets were used by Hamas as military objectives/used for acts harmful to Israel.
Sure. It’s a matter of definition.
I’m just noting, in terms of international law experts, outside of Israel and the US, a pretty clear consensus is emerging that the scale of what Israel is doing to civilian infrastructure does in fact amount to war crimes.
That’s how you justify a genocide of Palestinians?
There is an explicitly genocidal party in this conflict, and it isn’t Israel. Only one party has committed a genocide in this long conflict, and once again, it wasn’t Israel.
For the first time in 1,000 years not a single Jew remains in the Jewish Quarter. Not a single building remains intact. This makes the Jews’ return here impossible
In his memoir’s Col. El Tell outlined his decision to attack Jewish Quarter:
“The operations of calculated destruction were set in motion. I Knew that the Jewish Quarter was densely populated with Jewish populations who caused their fighters a good deal of interference and difficulty. I embarked, therefore on shelling of the quarter with mortars creating harassment and destruction. Only for days after our entry into Jerusalem, the Jewish Quarter become their graveyard. Death and destruction reigned over it. As the down of May 28th was about to break, the Jewish Quarter emerged in convulsive cloud-a cloud of death and agony”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamization_of_Jerusalem#Islamization_of_Jerusalem_under_Jordanian_ruleSelf-defense is not genocide. Such accusations only serve to aid the genocidal.
You’re quoting a war that took place in the 40’s as if it’s recent.
The past 70 years of Israeli control are a lot more relevant to current conflicts, you are ignoring a mountain of atrocities carried out by Israel onto Palastinian civilians.
Israel is an apartheid state. If you’re going to argue that obvious fact and claim that the people of Gaza deserve to be murdered em masse, then there is no discussion to be had here: you are a piece of shit.
It’s the same war, been going on for 70+ years. The Palestinians often cite the Nakba as one of their motivations for intifada, and that also occurred at that time.
20% of Israel’s population are Palestinians/Arabic, and they are not subject to the same restrictions. It’s clear this is about defending themselves from a hostile and violent belligerent nation, not imposing racial hierarchy. The situation Palestinian civilians find themselves in was caused by popular support for Hamas and intifada and an unwillingness to lay down arms. Their government mass murdered and raped civilians next door in a country with a superior military, these consequences should be unsurprising.
Their government
Obligatory reminder that the most recent election in Gaza happened before half the current population were even born, let alone eligible to vote.
(It was during the GW Bush era in the US so this is a bit like blaming Millenials for the person the Boomers elected decades ago).
One of the reasons this debacle is so unpopular internationally is that half the civillians being massacred are children.
Obligatory reminder that the most recent election in Gaza happened before half the current population were even born. One of the reasons this debacle is so unpopular internationally is that half the civillians being massacred are children. (It was during the GW Bush era in the US so this is a bit like blaming Millenials for the person the Boomers elected decades ago). One of the reasons this debacle is so unpopular internationally is that half the civillians being massacred are children
-
As the above polls show, Palestinian support for Hamas has only increased since then, (74% at present,) with that level of popularity they would easily be reelected today.
-
Unfortunately said children are also indoctrinated into intifada, continuing the cycle of violence. I’m not sure what the answer is, but one is not immune from reprisals for violence simply because they have a high fertility rate.
-
American Millennials will indeed have to deal with the repercussions of what Bush, and every other president did. Causality doesn’t reset with every generation, this is a 70+ year old multi-generational conflict at this point.
-
Go fuck yourself dude. Oh 20% of people aren’t subjected to inhumane restrictions and have access to basic needs? Wow, Israel must not be doing anything wrong, totally the most moral army in the world.
I don’t support Hamas, but saying that all of Palestine is responsible for the actions of some is the literal definition of collective punishment. You said it yourself, Israel is the more powerful military and has held the governmental power in the region for recent history, but Hamas is the one doing genocide?? How the fuck do you expect an entire region that has been stripped of their rights, water, food, housing, culture, history, and family to react?
But please, continue justifying the murder of children because of some religious bullshit.
Oh 20% of people aren’t subjected to inhumane restrictions and have access to basic needs? Wow,
You’re moving the goalposts, we were talking about whether it’s apartheid. People of the same racial group who aren’t violent are being treated better than a group of people who are violent. It’s clearly not about racial hierarchy, apartheid, it’s about a nation literally trying to murder and genocide them for the last 70 years being subjected to restrictions.
Israel must not be doing anything wrong, totally the most moral army in the world.
Never claimed they were the most moral in the world, or that they do nothing wrong, but they have shown an amazing amount of restraint over the years. I’m not aware of any other forces that often call and give warning to civilians before they bomb. As I have shown above, when the shoe was on the other foot, Palestinian forces showed no such restraint.
I don’t support Hamas, but saying that all of Palestine is responsible for the actions of some is the literal definition of collective punishment.
That’s how war between nations works. When a government goes to war, everyone under their leadership in their territory shares the consequences of this. You seem to be implying that every war, ever, is collective punishment and therefore a war crime.
Let’s not forget that Hamas was once elected by Gazans and still has popular support in Palestine (74%, it went up after Oct 7.) I feel bad for the 26% who are stuck there with Hamas and their supporters, the rest are evidently getting what they want.
You said it yourself, Israel is the more powerful military and has held the governmental power in the region for recent history, but Hamas is the one doing genocide??
Hamas is clearly and openly advocating for genocide, (citation above,) they simply lack the means. Israel denies they are. Just because they are at the losing end of asymmetrical warfare does not make them the good guys, in this case the underdog wants genocide and if they ever get the upper hand again, I have no doubt they will commit it.
How the fuck do you expect an entire region that has been stripped of their rights, water, food, housing, culture, history, and family to react?
I’d expect them to be pissed off but acknowledge the realities of their situation and try to hold on to what they still have, and get back their rights and autonomy through peaceful negotiations. However, polls indicate they want endless intifada, all or nothing, and this is where that road leads.
So you’re saying there’s land for development once this is all over!?
(I would use a sarcasm tag here, but I’m fairly certain that’s the whole fucking play by Israel, the bastards)
Not the land, but the underwater natural gas deposits. https://www.workers.org/2023/11/74864/
On Oct. 29, Israel announced that it awarded 12 licenses for exploring additional offshore natural gas fields to six companies, including British Petroleum and Italian energy giant Eni. These awards show that Israel has no intention of letting the genocide it is carrying out against Gaza’s people interfere with its ongoing theft of Palestinian resources.
