• Sybil@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    10 months ago

    Anti-zionism = the belief that the Jewish people, uniquely among all the peoples of the world, have no right of self-determination or a state in which their national aspirations can be pursued.

    I don’t believe in rights at all. I believe the existence of nation states is an abhorration. but neither of those are why you are wrong.

    antizionism is the belief that the Jewish people are part of a diaspora, and the creation of an Israeli state undermines that culture in addition to necessitating mass killing that is indistinguishable from genocide. antizionism simply opposes zionism, and makes no claims about denying rights to anyone.

    • DeadHorseX@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      10 months ago

      I believe the existence of nation states is an abhorration.

      But it’s only when the Jews claim the same right as every other people that you have a problem.

      Think about that for a minute.

      antizionism is the belief that the Jewish people are part of a diaspora, and the creation of an Israeli state undermines that culture in addition to necessitating mass killing that is indistinguishable from genocide. antizionism simply opposes zionism, and makes no claims about denying rights to anyone.

      This isn’t what Anti-Zionism is. It might be what you mean by it, but it isn’t Anti-Zionism. Partly because Zionism – and the establishment of an Israeli state – does not, and never has, necessitated mass killing.

      It does in fact make claims about rights – it specifically selects out Jews as the only people who are not entitled to self-determination and the aspiration to nationhood in a state of their own and in their homeland to which they are indigenous.

      • Sybil@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        10 months ago

        it’s only when the Jews claim the same right as every other people that you have a problem.

        wrong

      • Sybil@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        10 months ago

        the establishment of an Israeli state – does not, and never has, necessitated mass killing.

        so they’re just doing it for funsies.

      • Sybil@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        10 months ago

        It does in fact make claims about rights – it specifically selects out Jews as the only people who are not entitled to self-determination

        is that what you tell the antizionist Jews?

        • DeadHorseX@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          10
          ·
          10 months ago

          A tiny, tiny proportion of Jews who take that view for specific theological reasons. You don’t get to weaponise them in your fight against the Jewish state by acting like they’re representative.

          • Sybil@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            ·
            10 months ago

            You don’t get to weaponise them in your fight … by acting like they’re representative.

            holy fuck imagine writing all these words in this order and not realising what you’re doing.

            • DeadHorseX@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              8
              ·
              10 months ago

              Again, trying to weaponise tiny Jewish fringe groups which represent a tiny fringe of Jewish opinion to attack the Jewish state doesn’t work, and borders on antisemitism.

              • Sybil@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                10 months ago

                what i surmise from your approach is that majority rules, and since the majority signs off on imperialism and genocide, the rest of your community is wrong and anyone who takes their view is antisemitic.

                • DeadHorseX@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  9
                  ·
                  10 months ago

                  There’s no imperialism or genocide in Israel. Jews are indigenous to Israel and the land was partitioned by the United Nations in accordance with international law, just as Pakistan and India were as well as many other states. Only Israel, the only Jewish state on the planet, is treated this way. Not hard to guess why. If the Palestinians hadn’t declared war in 1948, 1967, 1972, then the First and Second Intifadas, now the October 7th Holocaust, they’d have their own state by now. Unforuntately, they’ve shown repeatedly that they cannot yet be trusted to run a nation-state with military capabilities. The Denazification process of Palestine would have to be given time to work through first, just like it did in Germany after the Second World War.

                  • Sybil@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    7
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    10 months ago

                    There’s no imperialism or genocide in Israel.

                    yes there is. they are systematically dispossessing the palestinian people of their homes and killing them indiscriminately. they are witholding food, clean water, and medical supplies. it’s a genocide and it’s being executed by an imperialist arm of britain (and the us).

                  • Sybil@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    ·
                    10 months ago

                    Only Israel, the only Jewish state on the planet, is treated this way. Not hard to guess why.

                    i don’t know what you mean. please say it.

      • RoosterBoy@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        10 months ago

        Show me where all the white people are displacing and killing others so they can create their perfect ethno-state. Show me where black people are doing that too. While we are at it, let’s throw in every other ethnicity on the planet and see where their rightful ethnostates are.