• DeadHorseX@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    12
    ·
    10 months ago

    I believe the existence of nation states is an abhorration.

    But it’s only when the Jews claim the same right as every other people that you have a problem.

    Think about that for a minute.

    antizionism is the belief that the Jewish people are part of a diaspora, and the creation of an Israeli state undermines that culture in addition to necessitating mass killing that is indistinguishable from genocide. antizionism simply opposes zionism, and makes no claims about denying rights to anyone.

    This isn’t what Anti-Zionism is. It might be what you mean by it, but it isn’t Anti-Zionism. Partly because Zionism – and the establishment of an Israeli state – does not, and never has, necessitated mass killing.

    It does in fact make claims about rights – it specifically selects out Jews as the only people who are not entitled to self-determination and the aspiration to nationhood in a state of their own and in their homeland to which they are indigenous.

    • Sybil@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      10 months ago

      it’s only when the Jews claim the same right as every other people that you have a problem.

      wrong

    • Sybil@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      10 months ago

      the establishment of an Israeli state – does not, and never has, necessitated mass killing.

      so they’re just doing it for funsies.

    • Sybil@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      10 months ago

      It does in fact make claims about rights – it specifically selects out Jews as the only people who are not entitled to self-determination

      is that what you tell the antizionist Jews?

      • DeadHorseX@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        10
        ·
        10 months ago

        A tiny, tiny proportion of Jews who take that view for specific theological reasons. You don’t get to weaponise them in your fight against the Jewish state by acting like they’re representative.

        • Sybil@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          10 months ago

          You don’t get to weaponise them in your fight … by acting like they’re representative.

          holy fuck imagine writing all these words in this order and not realising what you’re doing.

          • DeadHorseX@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            8
            ·
            10 months ago

            Again, trying to weaponise tiny Jewish fringe groups which represent a tiny fringe of Jewish opinion to attack the Jewish state doesn’t work, and borders on antisemitism.

            • Sybil@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              10 months ago

              what i surmise from your approach is that majority rules, and since the majority signs off on imperialism and genocide, the rest of your community is wrong and anyone who takes their view is antisemitic.

              • DeadHorseX@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                9
                ·
                10 months ago

                There’s no imperialism or genocide in Israel. Jews are indigenous to Israel and the land was partitioned by the United Nations in accordance with international law, just as Pakistan and India were as well as many other states. Only Israel, the only Jewish state on the planet, is treated this way. Not hard to guess why. If the Palestinians hadn’t declared war in 1948, 1967, 1972, then the First and Second Intifadas, now the October 7th Holocaust, they’d have their own state by now. Unforuntately, they’ve shown repeatedly that they cannot yet be trusted to run a nation-state with military capabilities. The Denazification process of Palestine would have to be given time to work through first, just like it did in Germany after the Second World War.

                • Sybil@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  7
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  10 months ago

                  There’s no imperialism or genocide in Israel.

                  yes there is. they are systematically dispossessing the palestinian people of their homes and killing them indiscriminately. they are witholding food, clean water, and medical supplies. it’s a genocide and it’s being executed by an imperialist arm of britain (and the us).

                  • DeadHorseX@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    8
                    ·
                    10 months ago

                    hey are systematically dispossessing the palestinian people of their homes and killing them indiscriminately.

                    If they were killing indiscriminately the war would have been over within a week.

                    The occupation of the West Bank and illegal settlements are a disaster, a moral catastrophe, and one of the major roadblocks to peace between Israel and Palestine. It’s to the eternal shame of Netanyahu and his far-right allies that they haven’t been put a stop to.

                    they are witholding food, clean water, and medical supplies.

                    This isn’t true. There are multiple entry-points into Gaza and have been for weeks. The problem is a lack of international aid and the difficulty in distributing it within Gaza, because Hamas repeatedly steal the resources before it can get into civilian hands.

                    it’s a genocide and it’s being executed by an imperialist arm of britain (and the us).

                    Ugh

                • Sybil@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  ·
                  10 months ago

                  Only Israel, the only Jewish state on the planet, is treated this way. Not hard to guess why.

                  i don’t know what you mean. please say it.

                  • DeadHorseX@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    7
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    10 months ago

                    Antisemitism.

                    No Jews, no news.

                    Nobody questions Pakistan or India’s right to exist, even though they were created the same way as Israel was, and with significantly more bloodshed and loss of life – millions dead, in fact – and on the basis of religious faith. There’s hardly any Hindus left in Pakistan, but about 20% of Israel are Arabs including Druze, Christians, Muslims, Atheists, and nomadic Bedouins. They serve at every level of the country – from courts to the Knesset, enjoy the exact same set of civil rights as any other citizen of Israel including the right to vote, uniquely among any country in the Middle East.

                    The reason is that Israel is a Jewish state, and people hate Jews.

    • RoosterBoy@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      10 months ago

      Show me where all the white people are displacing and killing others so they can create their perfect ethno-state. Show me where black people are doing that too. While we are at it, let’s throw in every other ethnicity on the planet and see where their rightful ethnostates are.