• ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.

    • TJD@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Lmao tell me you’re just posting outrage without reading the article without telling me.

      If you had been bothered to read before making a retarded quip, you’d notice that the rejection by judge was because the ballot measure was not specific enough, and was just meant to tack a bunch of stuff on such that it could get passed simply by being attached to a different issue.

      If you don’t see why that’s not how things should run, I only assume you’re the one person on earth who isn’t a corrupt politician that just absolutely salivates over every god awful omnibus bill with hundreds of riders for random garbage

        • TJD@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          No. It’s quite telling that you refuse to address the actual reason, and are just trying to pin it off on anything else. Perhaps there’s a reason you’re so incredibly pissy that these issues can’t just all be slammed into one omnibus package, but rather have to be individually voted on?

          • ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            It’s pretty dishonest to call it an omnibus package. It all comes down to whether or not you think the government should have the power to regulate a person’s fertility and childbearing. That is hardly the limited type of government conservatives say they support.

    • Estiar@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      I think one should criticize the influence of the courts rather than simply blaming ‘the conservatives’. The court system has become quite the monster over the past 100 years. They can have free reign over policy decisions that ought to be handled by the legislature. Because of judicial review, the Judicial branch of the federal government can effectively make law where there was none before which used to be the domain of the Legislatures and the populace.

      Did you know that around a hundred years ago, the Legislative branch controlled the docket for the Supreme Court?

      I know that’s not the point that you’re trying to make, as blaming your woes on the conservatives is much easier for the brain. I’m sure that if the average .world user had dictatorial power for a day, one of the first acts would be to disenfranchise the Christians because they are problem voters, and shortly after repealing the second amendment in its entirety.

      • ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I like guns and free exercise of religion thank you. I do agree that the judicial branch has expanded its own power too far. I think that is an inevitable result of the intractability of the legislative branch. When it comes to judges make no decisions that should have been laws, that have been coming from conservative justices most frequently in recent years (Dobbs, Bruen, and Citizens United to name a few).

        • Estiar@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          I mostly agree, though I’d like to point out that the Dobbs decision was overturning this trend. Roe v. Wade was a case very much creating legislation where there was none. It didn’t have very good justification, but now with Dobbs, we have the opportunity to codify what we actually want in our law today. That was written in the Dobbs opinion IIRC. Nevada seems safe for those wishing to preserve abortion at the moment, but the Judge here is making things much more complicated than they ought to be.

          (I really hate the citizens united case. The conservatives may have passed it, but the only thing it conserves are the elites)

          • BottomTierJannie@sh.itjust.worksM
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            1 year ago

            but the Judge here is making things much more complicated than they ought to be.

            How so? Is it not reasonable to enforce that ballot measures must be specific and not just a ton of stuff all bundled into a big all-or-nothing vote?

            • Estiar@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              What’s illegal is different from what’s reasonable. I’m going to have to find the judge’s opinion, but the article doesn’t really give any reasons why it’s illegal.

              Congress passes all sorts of these big bundles of law all the time

              • BottomTierJannie@sh.itjust.worksM
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                1 year ago

                You seriously see no problem with just putting massive bundles of issues on a purely binary yes/no vote with no room for anything to be changed or removed?

                • Estiar@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  Then vote it down

                  Actually, now that I read the damn article again, it seems like there’s a single subject rule in Nevada. That’s the crux of the issue.

          • ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            At the same time it could be said that Roe was preventing the creation of legislation where there should be none. While rights like privacy and bodily autonomy are not explicitly enumerated in the Constitution, they are woven throughout the Constitution and firmly established in the Federalist papers and other foundational documents.

    • No1RivenFucker@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      OK, and? Democracy isn’t some god to worship. If democracy can’t achieve good results, is it not reasonable to view alternative systems as a next choice?

      • Saledovil@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        Well, that would leave oligarchic and authoritarian systems. If we assume that every politician is primarily looking out for itself, then the people should go with a democratic system. A dictator is after all, only beholden to itself, and will aim to extract wealth from the people it rules to secure its own position and lifestyle. If the US where to switch from a democracy to a dictatorship, most citizens would see their taxes go up, and their economic and political freedoms decline. And for the USA, this would spit in the face of conservative values.

        • No1RivenFucker@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Nobody says we must maintain some “pure” system. For an already existing example, passing a constitutional amendment is far, far more difficult than regular legislation. Is that undemocratic? By the most “pure” definition, yes. It’s far from just letting everything be decided by 50+1 popular vote. Or hell, even the fact that we have representatives we elect instead of using direct democracy for everything.

          Limiting democracy doesn’t mean just installing a dictator or something. It can be as simple as placing some issues beyond the reach of majoritatian whims. I never see any of the people crying about democracy upset that their free speech isn’t under question of majoritatian will.

        • winterayars@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Well, that would leave oligarchic and authoritarian systems.

          That’s certainly what Republicans want but there are alternatives. Our current system is pretty authoritarian anyway, TBH.