I hear what you’re saying, but I think that as a human that thinks that democracy and human rights are like pretty important, it’s hard for me not to support the people I see opposing a system like Russia’s.
And yeah I get that Ukraine’s democracy has problems, and Russia is probably not as bad as western media would have us believe, but I can’t believe I’m so deceived that democracies shouldn’t resist imperial aggression.
It sucks that ordinary people get their lives destroyed, but we should blame Russia, and support Ukrainians in resisting.
And yeah I know you didn’t say we shouldn’t, and yeah of course a lot of Ukrainians want the war to just end. I don’t know, it seems like lots still aren’t ready to give up.
Russia is probably not as bad as western media would have us believe
Oh it’s probably worse xD Except the support of the war, this is over portrayed. If Putin died or the war was suddenly over, no one would give a crap.
I agree with everything you’re saying. We should support Ukraine to the fullest. Funnily enough it seems like I end up being the “hard liner” amongst my friends. But of course I am; I desperately want Russia to lose because this is the only way that Russia can have a new start.
The question I have started asking myself is:
When we support democracies - something we should absolutely do - can we rule over the will of the democracy we are trying to protect? Can and should we force Ukraine to keep on fighting if a democratic majority of the people were against it? (Not saying it is a majority, I cannot know that.) It is easy for us to say we want to support Ukraine to the fullest. Of course we do. As you said, supporting Ukraine is supporting democracy and freedom, but our support costs us money and weapons and maybe some inner political tensions. It doesn’t cause us to get drafted and it doesn’t destroy our infrastructure. We aren’t supplying soldiers in this conflict, the most crucial “resource”, we just give locals weapons and ammunition and tell them to fight for their freedom.
Maybe you have heard that Zelensky cancelled the next presidential elections and is staying in power. To me, this makes sense. Having a presidential election, let alone a new president take over, during wartime, seems insane. My Zelensky bashing friend has a different take on that, saying he would never be reelected and he knows that. From the beginning he painted a picture of victory, no matter the costs, and is not willing to back down. People want the option of real negotiations and not for him to keep up the image of the president with the balls of steel.
Supporting Ukraine goes beyond supporting democracy. If we allow them to lose, we hurt the international rules based order itself. The order which says that you can’t invade your neighbour and take their land for no reason.
If Putin gets away with annexing parts of Ukraine, now anyone can invade their neighbours, because they will get away with it. We will see more invasions and atrocities globally in the near future if we let this happen.
Re: popular support for the war amongst Ukrainians in Ukraine: yeah we can’t really know, and of course they can’t have an election.
Re: zelensky’s attitude: I do think that the ‘never surrender’ approach is actually a very useful negotiation tactic and I don’t know how you’d get people to fight at all if you tell them their just fighting for slightly better terms in a treaty…
I hear what you’re saying, but I think that as a human that thinks that democracy and human rights are like pretty important, it’s hard for me not to support the people I see opposing a system like Russia’s.
And yeah I get that Ukraine’s democracy has problems, and Russia is probably not as bad as western media would have us believe, but I can’t believe I’m so deceived that democracies shouldn’t resist imperial aggression.
It sucks that ordinary people get their lives destroyed, but we should blame Russia, and support Ukrainians in resisting.
And yeah I know you didn’t say we shouldn’t, and yeah of course a lot of Ukrainians want the war to just end. I don’t know, it seems like lots still aren’t ready to give up.
Oh it’s probably worse xD Except the support of the war, this is over portrayed. If Putin died or the war was suddenly over, no one would give a crap.
I agree with everything you’re saying. We should support Ukraine to the fullest. Funnily enough it seems like I end up being the “hard liner” amongst my friends. But of course I am; I desperately want Russia to lose because this is the only way that Russia can have a new start.
The question I have started asking myself is: When we support democracies - something we should absolutely do - can we rule over the will of the democracy we are trying to protect? Can and should we force Ukraine to keep on fighting if a democratic majority of the people were against it? (Not saying it is a majority, I cannot know that.) It is easy for us to say we want to support Ukraine to the fullest. Of course we do. As you said, supporting Ukraine is supporting democracy and freedom, but our support costs us money and weapons and maybe some inner political tensions. It doesn’t cause us to get drafted and it doesn’t destroy our infrastructure. We aren’t supplying soldiers in this conflict, the most crucial “resource”, we just give locals weapons and ammunition and tell them to fight for their freedom.
Maybe you have heard that Zelensky cancelled the next presidential elections and is staying in power. To me, this makes sense. Having a presidential election, let alone a new president take over, during wartime, seems insane. My Zelensky bashing friend has a different take on that, saying he would never be reelected and he knows that. From the beginning he painted a picture of victory, no matter the costs, and is not willing to back down. People want the option of real negotiations and not for him to keep up the image of the president with the balls of steel.
Supporting Ukraine goes beyond supporting democracy. If we allow them to lose, we hurt the international rules based order itself. The order which says that you can’t invade your neighbour and take their land for no reason.
If Putin gets away with annexing parts of Ukraine, now anyone can invade their neighbours, because they will get away with it. We will see more invasions and atrocities globally in the near future if we let this happen.
Re: popular support for the war amongst Ukrainians in Ukraine: yeah we can’t really know, and of course they can’t have an election.
Re: zelensky’s attitude: I do think that the ‘never surrender’ approach is actually a very useful negotiation tactic and I don’t know how you’d get people to fight at all if you tell them their just fighting for slightly better terms in a treaty…