An Israeli military spokesperson confirmed that there were “hostage situations” in the southern city of Ofakim and the nearby kibbutz of Beeri.

An Israeli military spokesperson confirmed that there were “hostage situations” in the southern city of Ofakim and the nearby kibbutz of Beeri.

Hamas said it had taken “dozens” of Israeli soldiers hostage and moved them to the Gaza Strip as footage emerged appearing to show gunmen in military fatigues leading a group of mostly barefoot women down a street in Israel.

The announcement and video verified by NBC News came hours after Hamas launched a deadly land, air and sea attack and fired a huge barrage of rockets at Israel.

  • SpaceCowboyEnglish
    21·
    1 年前

    “Apartheid state” rhetoric is just covering for the Hamas fascists. See before Hamas got into power Palestine had elections to determine their national leadership. But Hamas got into power and “permanently suspended” elections. They ended Palestinian democracy and by doing so destroyed any hope of Palestine being recognized as a legitimate country by anyone that’s not playing bullshit games.

    So now Hamas apologists try to rewrite history to convince people there was never any Palestinian democracy, and try to characterize the conflict as something happening within Israel’s borders, thus “Apartheid state.”

    I suppose it’s been so long since Hamas ended democracy in Palestine the younger people don’t have any concept of there ever being Palestinian elections, so maybe it’s understandable to think it’s unfair that Israel doesn’t allow people in the West Bank to vote in Israeli elections. But if you think about it logically, in order for Palestinians in the West Bank to have the rights of Israelis, Israel would have to annex the West Bank. Is that what you want? In order for people in Gaza to have the same rights as Israelis, first Israel would have to re-occupy Gaza, then annex it as well, Is that what you want?

    • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
      21·
      1 年前

      But Hamas got into power and “permanently suspended” elections.

      I’m not defending it, but that kinda bypasses a whole lot of context (it was Fatah who tried to ignore the election results first). ?Anyway I’m not saying Hamas are good guys. Anyone who just shoots up civilians is evil in my book, but I’m not sure how that has to do with Israel being an Apartheid state.

      But if you think about it logically, in order for Palestinians in the West Bank to have the rights of Israelis, Israel would have to annex the West Bank. Is that what you want? In order for people in Gaza to have the same rights as Israelis, first Israel would have to re-occupy Gaza,

      I’m talking about the already-annexed East Jerusalem. Either give them independence or let them vote on how they’re governed; and no, city elections aren’t enough.

      • SpaceCowboyEnglish
        11·
        1 年前

        According to Al Jazeera, Palestinians in East Jerusalem (though apparently they consider it to be “occupied”) do have the right to vote.

        https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2022/10/31/elections-7

        It’s just that Palestinians tend not to vote in Israeli elections. And Israel has a proportional representation system which has a tendency towards the “two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch” scenario. Minority concerns tend to get factored out in that kind of system.

        But I digress, Palestinians in territory annexed by Israel have the right to vote in Israeli elections. They just have low voter turn out. East Jerusalem is Annexed so they can have representation if they want it.

        Palestinians in East Jerusalem can have representation in the Knesset if they turn out to vote. It’s questionable what that representation even means in a proportional representation system, but at least where voting rights are concerned, they’re better off than residents of Washington DC.

        So yeah the “Apartheid state” meme is all about using ignorance to distract from how Hamas is the group that’s preventing Palestinians from being able to vote for their leaders. Hopefully you’re now less ignorant of the situation there.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
          21·
          1 年前

          According to Al Jazeera, Palestinians in East Jerusalem (though apparently they consider it to be “occupied”) do have the right to vote.

          As residents, East Jerusalemites without Israeli citizenship have the right to vote in municipal elections and play a role in the administration of the city. Residents pay taxes, and following a 1988 Israeli Supreme Court ruling, East Jerusalem residents are guaranteed the right to social security benefits and state health care.

          -Wikipedia. I think Al-Jazeera is talking about Palestinians who do have Israeli citizenship, because as I said East Jerusalem Palestinians who don’t have Israeli citizenship can only vote in local elections.

          Over 95% of East Jerusalemite Palestinians retain residency status rather than citizenship. Application for citizenship have grown from 69 (2003) to over 1,000 (2018) but obtaining Israel citizenship has been described as an uphill battle, with the number of applicants who receive a positive response meager. Obtaining an appointment for an interview alone can take 3 years followed by another 3 to 4 years to obtain a decision one way or another. Of 1,081 requests in 2016 only 7 were approved, though by 2018, 353 approvals were given to the 1,012 Palestinians applying. Lack of sufficient fluency in Hebrew, suspicions the applicant might have property in the West Bank, or be a security risk (such as having once visited a relative gaoled on security grounds) are considered impediments.

          This is what I meant by giving them the right to vote. East Palestinians are systematically denied that right.

          Almost exactly the same problem exists when they apply for building permits.