Is the royal family not the richest in the UK? Edit: Not just me wondering this I see!

The good news is that if someone went back and changed the past, then events would transpire such that they never had to go back in time for that reason, and so they wouldn’t., i.e. nothing would change. Not unless the whole exercise spins only the time traveler off into their own new universe in which they’re the only one with a memory of this alternative timeline from which they came.

Ironically, because we are too stupid a species to put willingly pit ourselves through any austerity on a large scale. No one is will accept less than they have it seems, even though the only people who would actually need to downgrade their lives are the ultra wealthy. It doesn’t make it any easier though because they hold all the power. And they use their propaganda power to tell us to change our lifestyle choices, while they flaunt their own wealth. They tell us to choose more expensive “eco-friendly” or “ethical” options most of us can’t afford, and so are encouraged to feel guilty for failing to buy. And they buy them of course, but then still drive million dollar cars and own multiple multimillion dollar mansions.

We’ve really got to find a way to stop fucking over ourselves like this. And we’ve got to do it by somehow getting the richest people and organizations of the world on board. Violent revolution has rarely worked long term, and it’s slipping further and further away as security technology gets more powerful. Nevermind drones and the inevitable rise of autonomous weapons systems. The “rabble” will never have access to these ordinances. So we’ve got to get in their heads. Trick them into doing the right thing enough to see that as the challenge to which their should commit their wealth.

I’m sorry that the only example you actually floated immediately contradicted your previous position of not driving farmers out of business.

How does supporting local farmers drive local farmers about of business?

Except there are kids whose lives and health we can save, right now, if we just start growing golden rice.

“Right now” would be mass sustained imports of Vitamin A supplements. Golden Rice still has some ways to go to be establish on existing rice farms, and then enjoy a successful growing season, even if it had been approved to proceed. If we want to “think of the children” seriously, money shouldn’t be an object and we’d be looking at multiple strategies all at once, and not relying solely on an experimental product like this.

We are talking about extremely poor people and areas here, where there is little or no infrastructure to support this as a long-term solution.

Sure, but that’s part of the problem isn’t it? Why don’t we also go in and fix that right now?

What you are suggesting requires drastic change and a lot of upfront money, and continued on-going long-term support and financial assistance.

Indeed. Don’t get me wrong, I know it’s never going to happen. Given that fact, perhaps we need cheap and nasty shortcuts like golden rice in order to help poor people save themselves with minimal outside resources. Potential patent issues aside if the gene mixes in with local rice varients, and other risks to the environment, it would be great if there was more Vitamin A available in their poverty diets. But, I can see why there is opposition to this. It makes sense, and it’s not just “ignorant” people like me who think this, clearly.

I just said what “directly” would actually look like after you said to help then directly. I didn’t endorse this approach necessarily. My point is that getting them to grow our GM crop is not “direct”.

I feel that you’re intentionally trying to one up me instead actually have a proper discussion here. Why not assume my intention here is to change my mind because together we might actually figure something out? This back and forth is all a waste of time otherwise.

My actual opinion is that we give them monetary aid conditioner on certain outcomes, and send in experienced people to support transitions to more sustainable and productive food production. The money can upgrade housing, farming and transport infrastructure, and help boost Vitamin A rich crop yields and sale prices. Also subsidize imports if Vitamin A rich foods to make up the difference if local yields are insufficient.

Expensive, hard work, job creating activities, instead of shortcuts.

Direct would be doing the farming for them, or handing over food directly. Or sending in workers to train local farmers to grid Vitamin A rich crops.

Rice is a shortcut, and sure it might “work”, but there are other potential long-term externalities at play here, that golden rice alone is insufficient to account for. It would be a plaster covering a surface wound when there is internal bleeding to worry about.

I don’t follow. What goal posts have I shifted? I don’t deny that rice is easy. My point is that it’s a shortcut that could have other negative consequences that more funding could avoid.

What about when rice prices crash and local small scale farmers go out of business?

Sure, but that doesn’t really address the argument in making. It’s a lazy way out that benefits the western world for its low cost and the fact is carrying a patented gene modification. We should be doing more, not relying on risky shortcuts.

Maybe one day all rice cultivars will be golden and the world we’ll be better off for it. But if the history of other GM crops is anything to go by, it sucks for the environment, and low prices screw local farmers over.

That’s exactly what I’m saying we should do. Brown rice ironically while it is food, might be like giving a baby an economic pacifier instead of trade milk and expecting it to grow. The Philippines has a range of biodiverse crops and other commodities that have more value than just the one food to feed them all, which would undercut the market and stifle local knowledge over time.

That said someone here suggested a more advanced plan to seed the beta-carotine gene into the native species, which is awesome in theory, but could create patent law violations and just generally be incredibly risky to the very biodiversity we’re trying to protect.

This is why I think while the science is very cool, we should avoid such irreversible treatments unless it’s a last resort.

Mosquitos on the other hand. Love the idea of genetically editing those fuckers out of existence. As the world inevitably warms, malaria is only going to spread further and wider. We should be getting ahead of that catastrophic future while we have the chance.

I don’t like Greenpeace, but these are good arguments.

This.

Yeah… There’s a bigger question too that is, why can’t other foods containing Vitamin A be supplied to the starving people of the Philippines? There are so many sources.

Let’s consider how fucked it is that even considering introducing this crop to the wild is necessary.

I’ve previously supported golden rice, but you’ve changed my mind. We should just be doing more to support developing nations directly. The world has sufficient abundance we shouldn’t need to take these dangerous shortcuts. Not yet.

Try me when we’re closer to Mad Max earth.

You won’t be getting universal healthcare, decent paid parental leave, comprehensive worker protections, or 4-8 weeks’ holiday pay per year for the foreseeable future.

Three US democratic party is fairly “conservative” relative to European social democracies. That’s all.

Work is fine, if it’s meaningful to you. Consuming is basically everything we do that isn’t “work”. And death is inevitable.

If we didn’t all have to do soul destroying jobs when we’re young, I think we’d grow up with less of a desire to waste our youths trying to die young taking stupid risks in the name of YOLO or whatever. It also doesn’t help most of us never stop do sounds south destroying jobs.

But it doesn’t have to be this way. More progressivism is needed to get us toward a post-work future. Check out ‘solar punk’. That’s a future worth wanting.

My understanding is that it was a Tumblr fad that became viral outside of Tumblr because it’s easy to recognize the absurdity, and it made a great target for ridiculing the woke (back when “woke” was a complement, and we just called this sort of thing being “politically correct”).

Point is, you can’t just impose new words on purpose. Language doesn’t work that way. It’s all about the viral memes taking off. So it’s always best to adapt existing language.

“They” is finally clicking in my mind as a singular gender neutral word, for example. It took a while, I have to admit.

That’s what I meant too, so yeah. Other than the driver’s seat of course.

Depends on the type of accident, but generally as far away from the point of impact with the bus as possible.

On balance of likelihood that’s going to be the back of bus.

High speed rear end is unlikely for a city bus. Most likely the bus rear ends someone because it can’t stop in time, or a head-on collision of some kind on a narrow road.

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