You sound like queer people in the 80s and 90s.

“What does it matter if one person accepts me? Won’t change anything and it just bums me out.”

Now, acceptance is the default position for most folk.

It’s literally penetrating a genitals to impregnate them against their will for our own benefit, the definition of rape. Saying you don’t care about the rape of cows and will keep eating dairy is your opinion, but denying that it is rape is just straight up cognitive dissonance.

And…?

What does that have to do with humans choosing to rape cows for profit? Total non-sequitur. Bears shit in the woods, does that mean you do too? Animals rape, therefore you should too?

They literally made cow tang their job.

lol

How the fuck did you think milk was produced? This is literally grade school biology. Farmers rape cows for their milk, and you pay them for the privilege.

Plus who fucks an animal before you eat it?

Everyone eating dairy.

Cows are mammals. They produce milk for their calves, its not something that cows just naturally produce. So the dairy industry only exists from repeated forcible impregnation.

Edit:

Y’all mad but this is simply biology.

“If someone is going to try and blackmail me with advertising? Blackmail me with money? Go fuck yourself. Go fuck yourself. Is that clear? Hey Bob, if you’re in the audience. That’s how I feel, don’t advertise.”

• Elon, 2023

🙄🤦

hypocrites who call out others while justifying their own ethical blind spots are typically more interested in self-righteousness than actually improving the world.

Exactly. I agree completely, but scroll up and remember I didn’t call ANYONE out in my original comment. I came to this thread because my perspective was asked for in the title. You came to me with a “but plants” trying to call MY beliefs out. So think whatever you want, but frankly, leave me the hell alone. This isn’t a discussion I asked for, it’s not on topic and you’re not saying anything interesting.

If you can argue that the line is between animals and plants, then someone else can argue the line is between animals and humans.

See, this is where you are just throwing your hands up and giving up on an sort of ethics. Because it’s theoretically possible for plants to feel pain then there is no reason to act moral when it comes to animals who we KNOW feel pain.

It’s like saying “porn with adults is harmful, but so is porn with children, who is to say where the line is? It’s an open question that is all perspective, so consume whatever you like”. When we know for a fact that sexual abuse of children causes suffering as opposed to what consenting adults do for a job.

Saying plants feel pain is motivated reasoning to call vegans hypocrites, not to actually produce a better world. I did not message you with my beliefs, you messaged me with whataboutism. 99% of the food humans eat is living in some sense (aside from minerals like salt), yeast in my bread is alive in some sense, but comparing that life to an animal as a reason it may not be matter? That it’s all perspective? Well then why not draw the line around cannibalism of anyone under a certain IQ. If consciousness is such an open question, then who is to say anyone is real except for myself? If I hurt another human, who is to say that they feel at all? It could all be simulation from a certain perspective so who cares?

This sort of “what if” and “it depends” whataboutism doesn’t actually help anyone. I didn’t bring veganism to you, you brought this to me. This is just naval gazing because calling vegan hypocrites makes you more secure in your own choices. You’re not saying anything of value,

No. It’s really not. I know the study you are going to link with the clickbait title that “plants feel pain”, but it’s unscientific garbage.

When you cut a plant, it only reacts with a secretion. That’s not sentience, it has no concept of pain because it literally does not have the required parts to feel it. Pain requires a nerve ending to feel the sensation, a brain to process that sensation in to an threat and a system to connect those two organs. Plants have none of this.

Yes plants release a pheromone when they are cut, but to extrapolate that to pain is a wild leap. If I cut an animal, they bleed, they yell, and they either run away or attack me, they generally do the same for their children. Exactly like humans react when cut. It’s impossible to disprove if plants have some other totally radically different type of intelligence we just don’t understand yet, but there is no evidence to suggest that is the case. I am making my choices based off evidence, not “idk, what if it was true”. It’s the same reason I know the earth is round and not flat, evidence not vibes.

It is intellectually dishonest to say that a potato and a pig perceive the world in the same way.

I don’t eat meat because it causes suffering in another. Plants have no concept of pain without a brain, nervous system or even nerve endings. So to me, the question becomes if the lab grown meat was ever attached to a brain that could feel suffering.

Now as far i understand it, lab grown meat isn’t nessecarily grown in isolation from a cow. But in a solution primarily compromised of blood extracted from living cows. That’s without question better than killing a creature, buuuuuuut we all know that when profits are involved the health of a animal is not prioritized.

So it really depends, while I don’t miss meat, once lab grown becomes widely available I’ll make my choice depending on the exact process of how it reached the grocery store.

That has nothing to do with “being a machine gun”. That is just how semi auto guns work.

This sort of "X is X no matter what changes, it is always X" essentialist thinking is why conservites are increasingly getting frustrated and loosing touch with the more complex reality the rest of the world occupies. This is the same line of thinking that keeps y’all upset about trans rights and understanding systemic racist.

“Today, the Court puts bump stocks back in civilian hands. To do so, it casts aside Congress’s definition of ‘machinegun’ and seizes upon one that is inconsistent with the ordinary meaning of the statutory text and unsupported by context or purpose.”

“We conclude that [a] semiautomatic rifle equipped with a bump stock is not a ‘machinegun’ because it does not fire more than one shot ‘by a single function of the trigger"

“When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck,”

Ignoring reality in favor of weird essentialism to support your base, is like peak conservative. How dumb.

4 fried chickens and a coke.

Ticket prices originally used to be fixed by the goverment, which made airlines try to offer the best experince as a way to attract customers. But then lobbyists chanted “deregulation” enough times and airlines could set their own prices. Which of course started a race to the bottom where the way to attract customers was now to slash costs. It’s a big reason how back in the 50s being a commercial airline pilots or flight attendent was prestigious profession, became today where most of a flight crew, pilot included, qualify for SNAP.

Without knowing anything about you then I’d recommend The Lathe of Heaven. If you want something more political and sociological, The disposed. If you are queer, then The Left Hand of Darkness shoots to the top of my recommendations.

But Ursula is my favorite author, so I think picking up any of these will be a treat.

Honestly, this is hesrt breaking. Always expected from anyone “converted to straight”. But this guy spent his whole life denying himself and then made his profession pushing and reinforcing that shame on to others. He is absolutely a victim, but I imagine that accepting himself comes with a lot of regrets regarding others the people he… “helped”.

One can only hope he becomes a force for acceptance and self love moving forward. But, I imagine regrets will haunt him for the rest of his days. Poor guy.

My first viewing I did mostly take it at face value. But in my defense, I was a dumb 11 year old kid. It wasn’t until Neil Patrick Haris came out in full SS uniform that I started asking questions.

I made myself very clear in responses to the original comment what I meant

Come back to this thread in a month and re-read. You were vague on top of vague.

Or… classic arrogance. Everyone else can mishear but impossible for you to misspeak?

You sound like a teenager.