The mods there have decided to allow underage looking content, skirting close to CP. Unless we want such disgusting stuff on our feed, I think we should defederate from that instance.
This is highly misleading and makes more sense when reading the original question thread. https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/42695/READ-THIS-clarification-on-the-decision-and-poll-results
This affects fictional content where it is hard to determine the age of the character. No obvious underage stuff.
I think it’s necessary to monitor the situation and how they will handle moderation, but for now, I would prefer to do it from a distance from kbin. There is currently a significant issue with moderation, and disturbing content can remain up for too long. I’m working on improving this issue as well.
it’d be nice if you could write up a short thing on your philosophy for federating/defederating/content. many of us would like to simply have full federation and curate content ourselves, though it’s understandable that moderation needs to happen in some cases.
many of us would like to simply have full federation and curate content ourselves, though it’s understandable that moderation needs to happen in some cases.
Agreed. I think the emphasis needs to be on usage of NSFW tagging, and making sure users have the ability to block magazines that they think are borderline (or just bad at tagging their content) without having to click into that magazine.
That said, I would not be opposed to a middle ground where entire instances can be flagged as NSFW so that their content is automatically tagged. 1) Instances should be able to voluntarily tag themselves like this so that all posts originating from that instance are automatically tagged, and 2) admins of other instances should be given the option to flag other instances as NSFW to their local instance as an alternative to defederating. There is still some room for overreaction with #2, but it’s still putting control in the hands of that instance’s users whether they want to interact with that content or not.
This seems like a much more manageable approach. Obviously illegal content needs to be banned, but as long as NSFW content is legal and properly tagged, it can be an entirely opt-in experience (with some default/UI tweaks if it’s not the case already). I understand that people don’t want to see otaku lolichans or whatever, but even on Reddit enabling NSFW could get you a prolapsed anus, a brutal beheading, or any flavor of extreme fetish that has just as much potential to ruin your day. Even as someone who doesn’t seek any of this out, I’d still like to have aggregation of the largest NSFW feeds (which is majority pretty tame by comparison). If there’s a possibility for this stuff to sneak into /m/random or wherever, that can be addressed without defederation.
One of the reasons I joined Kbin is because it isn’t Beehaw, and doesn’t have the mission of curating a family-friendly safe space engineered not to offend anyone, ever. Moderation is necessary to mitigate habitual bad actors and comply with legal standards, but self-imposing a mandate beyond that just creates an endless stream of drama in service of a goal that’s impossible to attain. As the fediverse grows, this kind of controversy will become more and more common as with all social media, and it’s not tenable to try be responsive to the whims of every person or group who wants to impose an agenda or finds their sensibilities violated by this or that community. It fuels conflict, promotes censorship, and incentivizes grandstanding by people who are more concerned with policing the actions of others than contributing constructively to discussions.
Who wants to read a post feed that’s dominated by people arguing about this stuff and calling each other names over the new hot-button moderation issue of the day? How is that any better than Twitter?
The more pressing matter is that simply viewing such images is a crime in some jurisdictions, let alone distributing them. It exposes both the site itself, any federating instances and users of any federating instances to potential legal issues.
More philosophically, I don’t care if people that want to look at underage anime girls fuck off. They can go and be creepy weebs somewhere else.
I’m personally most worried about the toxicity of the western loli community. I had to deal with them as a moderator of anime communities, most famously an anime shitposting page on Facebook, and they’re the worst.
They think if you’re not a big fan of loli, then you don’t belong to the anime community, and you must be harassed out from there. If I had a dollar every time people were harassed on Twitter for saying they like some generic shounen instead of some borderline loli porn…
They do that, though, because they know reasonably well adjusted people will not tolerate their kinks in general fandom, so they have to make sure those people do not enter the fandom.
So they believe you need to be into their kink to be an anime fan not from an ideological position, but from one of knowing its the only way they get to be in the fandom.
See stuff like this is why I don’t really like anime, the community ruins it and a lot of the things that seem to be popular for anime also tend to have those weird pedophilic ideals. I am sure there are some anime I like, but I continue to not touch the medium with a 10 foot pole because of the user base.
The important differentiator is that anime is a medium. There is high-brow stuff and low-brow stuff. Both fans and non-fans make the mistake of treating it as this all-inclusive hodgepodge, particularly because there happens to be a large market for that low-brow stuff.
Removing sexuality from the picture for a moment, both the anime and light novel scenes (where a lot of anime originates) are much more derivative and prone to copycatting than their western counterparts. Competition is fierce and sex sells. I don’t like it when stuff I find creepy finds its way into something I like, and sometimes I have to move on if the author keeps coming back to it. That’s just how it goes.
Find what anime you like, stick to the communities for the anime that you do like. Avoid mainstream or generic “anime” communities, because the disproportionate amount of low-brow content is going to drag discussions down in that direction. Either you accept it, ignore it, or stay away from it. And if some jackass tries to tell you that you’re not a “real” anime fan if you don’t accept their fetishes, nope right the fuck out of that conversation. Anyone trying to shove their fetish down your throat is just looking for self-validation in a public place and engaging with that is utterly pointless.
Under “Settings”, “Hide adult content” is enabled by default.
In communities you have a little block icon next to the “Subscribe” button in the sidebar to block individual communities. The same rule goes for whole instances. In this case: https://kbin.social/d/lemmynsfw.com - I think it’s just a little hard to navigate directly to those URLs from within the kbin interface at the moment.
The ability to blur NSFW really was a quality of life thing I didn’t even realize I’d been taking for granted. I wouldn’t call it an imminent NEED for myself, knowing how impossibly busy Ernest is, but. Dude.
I find myself between a rock and a suspiciously sticky hard place, because some of my interests should definitely be considered NSFW but aren’t porn. So do I give up my hobbies or subject myself to just SO many dicks.
To my own humor, I’m really remembering how much porn is on the internet right now.
To my own humor, I’m really remembering how much porn is on the internet right now.
Yup. That’s why my own take on this treads a fine line. IMO we need porn on our side to leave Reddit in the past, but that doesn’t mean we all need someone’s junk in our face either. :D
I literally did not do that, completely the opposite. You know who’s the greatest homophobes that see weird gay or trans agendas everywhere? Closeted gay people. Your weird mental gymnastics to put me into this sort of corner, even though I and those mods made it very clear that CP is banned, makes me think that you’re a closeted pedophile who thinks acting this way makes him look less suspicious. See how that works out?
I believe one solution to this, is to add another option beside federation or defederation.
Since, if my understanding is correct, federated instances don’t actually share content until someone subscribes to the community in the bad instance. The bad content is then shown to every other user in the first instance, needing every other user to block the bad content if they don’t like it or forcing defederation.
But on the other hand, that means that someone does actually want to view the content since someone did subscribed to it. So my proposed solution is to limit the content of the bad instance to be shown only to the subscribed users and nobody else. Maybe either by the user when subscribing, to select a limited subscription shown only to themselves, or by the moderator.
To apply that more broadly, wouldn’t that mean more like, ALL nsfw would only appear in its own mag/only on the feeds of people subbed to it? That may be an interesting solution. People set out deliberately to look for it and even keep pron-specific alts, so it’s not like every other subject, that would suffer massively if kept sequestered. Then all one would have to tackle is persuading people to tag all of it.
@LollerCorleone thanks for that.
This is highly misleading and makes more sense when reading the original question thread.
https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/42695/READ-THIS-clarification-on-the-decision-and-poll-results
This affects fictional content where it is hard to determine the age of the character. No obvious underage stuff.
I think it’s necessary to monitor the situation and how they will handle moderation, but for now, I would prefer to do it from a distance from kbin. There is currently a significant issue with moderation, and disturbing content can remain up for too long. I’m working on improving this issue as well.
it’d be nice if you could write up a short thing on your philosophy for federating/defederating/content. many of us would like to simply have full federation and curate content ourselves, though it’s understandable that moderation needs to happen in some cases.
Agreed. I think the emphasis needs to be on usage of NSFW tagging, and making sure users have the ability to block magazines that they think are borderline (or just bad at tagging their content) without having to click into that magazine.
That said, I would not be opposed to a middle ground where entire instances can be flagged as NSFW so that their content is automatically tagged. 1) Instances should be able to voluntarily tag themselves like this so that all posts originating from that instance are automatically tagged, and 2) admins of other instances should be given the option to flag other instances as NSFW to their local instance as an alternative to defederating. There is still some room for overreaction with #2, but it’s still putting control in the hands of that instance’s users whether they want to interact with that content or not.
This seems like a much more manageable approach. Obviously illegal content needs to be banned, but as long as NSFW content is legal and properly tagged, it can be an entirely opt-in experience (with some default/UI tweaks if it’s not the case already). I understand that people don’t want to see otaku lolichans or whatever, but even on Reddit enabling NSFW could get you a prolapsed anus, a brutal beheading, or any flavor of extreme fetish that has just as much potential to ruin your day. Even as someone who doesn’t seek any of this out, I’d still like to have aggregation of the largest NSFW feeds (which is majority pretty tame by comparison). If there’s a possibility for this stuff to sneak into /m/random or wherever, that can be addressed without defederation.
One of the reasons I joined Kbin is because it isn’t Beehaw, and doesn’t have the mission of curating a family-friendly safe space engineered not to offend anyone, ever. Moderation is necessary to mitigate habitual bad actors and comply with legal standards, but self-imposing a mandate beyond that just creates an endless stream of drama in service of a goal that’s impossible to attain. As the fediverse grows, this kind of controversy will become more and more common as with all social media, and it’s not tenable to try be responsive to the whims of every person or group who wants to impose an agenda or finds their sensibilities violated by this or that community. It fuels conflict, promotes censorship, and incentivizes grandstanding by people who are more concerned with policing the actions of others than contributing constructively to discussions.
Who wants to read a post feed that’s dominated by people arguing about this stuff and calling each other names over the new hot-button moderation issue of the day? How is that any better than Twitter?
The more pressing matter is that simply viewing such images is a crime in some jurisdictions, let alone distributing them. It exposes both the site itself, any federating instances and users of any federating instances to potential legal issues.
More philosophically, I don’t care if people that want to look at underage anime girls fuck off. They can go and be creepy weebs somewhere else.
I’m personally most worried about the toxicity of the western loli community. I had to deal with them as a moderator of anime communities, most famously an anime shitposting page on Facebook, and they’re the worst.
Yeah pedos tend to be shit people, whoda thunk it?
It’s not just that.
They think if you’re not a big fan of loli, then you don’t belong to the anime community, and you must be harassed out from there. If I had a dollar every time people were harassed on Twitter for saying they like some generic shounen instead of some borderline loli porn…
They do that, though, because they know reasonably well adjusted people will not tolerate their kinks in general fandom, so they have to make sure those people do not enter the fandom.
So they believe you need to be into their kink to be an anime fan not from an ideological position, but from one of knowing its the only way they get to be in the fandom.
Which is super fucked up.
See stuff like this is why I don’t really like anime, the community ruins it and a lot of the things that seem to be popular for anime also tend to have those weird pedophilic ideals. I am sure there are some anime I like, but I continue to not touch the medium with a 10 foot pole because of the user base.
The important differentiator is that anime is a medium. There is high-brow stuff and low-brow stuff. Both fans and non-fans make the mistake of treating it as this all-inclusive hodgepodge, particularly because there happens to be a large market for that low-brow stuff.
Removing sexuality from the picture for a moment, both the anime and light novel scenes (where a lot of anime originates) are much more derivative and prone to copycatting than their western counterparts. Competition is fierce and sex sells. I don’t like it when stuff I find creepy finds its way into something I like, and sometimes I have to move on if the author keeps coming back to it. That’s just how it goes.
Find what anime you like, stick to the communities for the anime that you do like. Avoid mainstream or generic “anime” communities, because the disproportionate amount of low-brow content is going to drag discussions down in that direction. Either you accept it, ignore it, or stay away from it. And if some jackass tries to tell you that you’re not a “real” anime fan if you don’t accept their fetishes, nope right the fuck out of that conversation. Anyone trying to shove their fetish down your throat is just looking for self-validation in a public place and engaging with that is utterly pointless.
We’re talking about illegal child porn here. Kbin should defederate immediately.
deleted by creator
I haven’t seen any user profile options to block nsfw tagged content, or to block a specific instance.
That would help, and doesn’t need defederation.
edit: found “Hide adult content” in settings.
Under “Settings”, “Hide adult content” is enabled by default.
In communities you have a little block icon next to the “Subscribe” button in the sidebar to block individual communities. The same rule goes for whole instances. In this case: https://kbin.social/d/lemmynsfw.com - I think it’s just a little hard to navigate directly to those URLs from within the kbin interface at the moment.
The ability to blur NSFW really was a quality of life thing I didn’t even realize I’d been taking for granted. I wouldn’t call it an imminent NEED for myself, knowing how impossibly busy Ernest is, but. Dude.
I find myself between a rock and a suspiciously sticky hard place, because some of my interests should definitely be considered NSFW but aren’t porn. So do I give up my hobbies or subject myself to just SO many dicks.
To my own humor, I’m really remembering how much porn is on the internet right now.
Yup. That’s why my own take on this treads a fine line. IMO we need porn on our side to leave Reddit in the past, but that doesn’t mean we all need someone’s junk in our face either. :D
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Anyone against defederating is seriously messed up. You included.
I don’t know why you feel the need to insult me over trivial bullshit like this, but I can throw that particular one right back at you, just for that.
Obviously because you feel the need to call CP “trivial bullshit”.
Geez, you need to take some fresh air, he didn’t said that. Dont make this place Reddit 2.0 and take the time to think before you type.
It’s pretty black and white when it comes to this stuff. There’s no grey zone. Block the hell out of it, support blocking it, or you condone it.
Ah yes, the classic “you’re either with me or against me”
deleted by creator
The fact that you call them drawings says enough about you, don’t worry.
I literally did not do that, completely the opposite. You know who’s the greatest homophobes that see weird gay or trans agendas everywhere? Closeted gay people. Your weird mental gymnastics to put me into this sort of corner, even though I and those mods made it very clear that CP is banned, makes me think that you’re a closeted pedophile who thinks acting this way makes him look less suspicious. See how that works out?
I’m pretty sure that’s not actually true.
Quite the case of projection there.
You are almost there buddy.
I just add the exact quote.
Supports your point.
Which is still potentially illegal in some countries.
Porn in general is illegal in some countries. User discretion is advised.
I believe one solution to this, is to add another option beside federation or defederation.
Since, if my understanding is correct, federated instances don’t actually share content until someone subscribes to the community in the bad instance. The bad content is then shown to every other user in the first instance, needing every other user to block the bad content if they don’t like it or forcing defederation.
But on the other hand, that means that someone does actually want to view the content since someone did subscribed to it. So my proposed solution is to limit the content of the bad instance to be shown only to the subscribed users and nobody else. Maybe either by the user when subscribing, to select a limited subscription shown only to themselves, or by the moderator.
Even of its only being shown to the subscriber, it’s still being hosted by the local instance. This puts the local site at legal risk.
To apply that more broadly, wouldn’t that mean more like, ALL nsfw would only appear in its own mag/only on the feeds of people subbed to it? That may be an interesting solution. People set out deliberately to look for it and even keep pron-specific alts, so it’s not like every other subject, that would suffer massively if kept sequestered. Then all one would have to tackle is persuading people to tag all of it.