Sanders signed Senate Bill 10, which exempts records that “reflect the planning or provision of security services” provided to the governor and other cabinet members.
The bill is retroactive to June 1, 2022, which is before Sanders was elected.
How can Republicans be on the wrong side of EVERY issue?
They act like poorly-written villains.
I don’t think this has anything to do with being Republican, it’s just a natural consequence of having a single party control pretty much everything.
Get the fuck out of here with your both sides bullshit.
Blagojevich would still be in prison if Trump hadn’t commuted his sentence. The Democrats punish their corrupt members, the GOP protects them.
Shit take: Pardoning the Blago was a good thing if it gets him back on more TV game shows.
Have you lived in areas with both extremes?
The recent GOP under Trump is a total mess, so I’ll absolutely give you that. But you have to recognize that this is largely a new thing with the GOP, and the GOP doesn’t actually really represent the average conservative these days. I’m in a very conservative area, and most of my neighbors (who are conservative) don’t like Trump or the modern GOP and wish we could go back to the old GOP that was more moderate (e.g. people like Romney and McCain). But the media has riled up the extreme base and they’re pushing the party to be more extreme. This nonsense started under Obama imo, but really gained traction with Trump.
So I’m not saying both sides are the same. The GOP under Trump is decidedly terrible. But most states don’t follow national politics, so we can largely look at them separately from what goes on in Washington DC. I can find examples of gerrymandering on both sides of the aisle, so single party control is the issue there, and it allows far more nonsense to get swept under the rug than if control of the legislature was actually competitive.
Yes, and I live in one of the reddest counties in FL. These assholes love it.
One party wants to govern & one party wants to rule.
One party is making FptP voting illegal
One party is banning books.
One party is supporting child murder via inaction.
One party is trying to make kids go hungry while they are forced to be at school.
One party supports forced birth.
One party separated & caged children seeking asylum.
Get the fuck out of here with your “both sides” bullshit.
Which party is banning FPTP? And do you consider that a good thing or a bad thing? The rest seem to be digs at the GOP, but I’m not sure what that first point is referring to.
Fortunately, most of that is limited to a handful of red states, and also largely misrepresented on the news (esp. the articles linked on lemmy). Some is fair criticism though.
Also, your rhetoric here is just off the charts, so I don’t think you’re interested in a good faith discussion. If I’m wrong about that, please let me know and we can discuss the issues. But if you just want to rant, feel free to let it all out.
Sorry, the #GOP is banning Ranked Choice Voting. I had FptP stuck in my head for some reason.
And that’s absolutely fine if you don’t want to discuss anything, I’m more interested in the other people seeing thru your well-spoken bullshit.
This comment seems a lot more calm than the last, so I’ll give it a shot. But if you lean into rhetoric, I’m out.
banning books
I haven’t seen much evidence for this.
The Florida law that I think you’re referring to merely requires schools to formalize the process for what books they put on shelves. Books were removed until that process was finished, and AFAIK there’s no restriction on what citizens can purchase or what libraries can carry, the only restriction is that books in schools need to be age appropriate (and I’m sure you and I both disagree with conservatives on what that means) and relevant.
What I have seen is a lot of FUD from both sides about it, and it’s alarming to me that people don’t seem to see past the BS.
One party is supporting child murder via inaction.
…
One party is trying to make kids go hungry while they are forced to be at school.
I think these are related, but again, it’s hard to see through the rhetoric.
You can’t murder through inaction, nor starve someone through inaction unless they’re actually incarcerated. I’m not really sure what the first is referring to, so I’ll focus on the second.
What you seem to be getting at here is the concept of positive rights. I personally reject positive rights in general, but I do think school lunches should be provided to all, but that’s because we legally require attendance for enough hours that a meal break is needed. I think employers should also provide meals if they require shifts longer than 4 hours, or schedule shifts back to back with less than four hours in between. I think employees and students should be free to refuse the provided meals and receive monetary compensation instead.
However, I reject the notion of positive rights in general, and I think there’s an interesting discussion to be had here.
One party supports forced birth.
This comes down to when you believe people get rights. The conservative position is that fetuses have human rights, and liberals seem to ignore fetal rights and focus on the rights of the mother.
My personal view is more nuanced:
- it should never be illegal for a woman to seek an abortion, any regulation should be on doctors
- during the first trimester when miscarriage risk is high, it’s a privacy issue, so it should be nearly completely unrestricted (aside from malpractice issues like doctors urging women to get an abortion they don’t want, but it’s already illegal to force medication on someone)
- until fetal viability, it should be restricted to medical need, or for people who couldn’t get an abortion during the first trimester for some reason (abusive relationship, legal complexities, didn’t know they were pregnant, etc)
- once the fetus is viable, the state should fund an early delivery if the woman chooses to put the child up for adoption
I believe that balances the rights of the woman and the fetus. It doesn’t make either side happy, but I do believe it is better than the status quo.
One party separated & caged children seeking asylum.
Both sides have a bad track record on immigration. The solution would be resolved if we just made legal immigration easier.
But I do agree, I think Trump’s actions here were terrible, and every GOP candidate’s position this year has been terrible.
I recall reading someone’s proposal, but I forget who (I think it was someone from the GOP), but here it is:
- All undocumented immigrants need to go to the nearest immigration office to get a temporary visa after a background check
- Every year, they need to return to the immigration office to get a renewal; this can continue as long as they remain law abiding citizens
- if they get deported, it’ll be a lot more difficult to get in legally
On paper that sounds fair, though I’d need to see the details first.
Have my upvote. This post is getting hammered for the supreme sin of introducing nuance to a thread where everyone just wants to be righteously indignant. Most or us have parents who qualify as conservative, but not as evil. It’s like that.
Yeah, and I think it’s unfortunate. I feel I’ve been constructive and thorough, and my goal was simply to provide a different point of view to hopefully convince others to consider other perspectives and have a good discussion about it.
If there’s something I did that isn’t appropriate, I’d love to know about it.
It’s not you. I don’t want to say, “both sides”, because one side is clearly worse than the other, but these people are becoming what they despise. If you look at the worst kinda quasi-religious hive-mind discourse they used to have on /r/TheDonald, and shift it left, it would look like this.
I’m kinda disappointed.
Exactly.
But my point here is that the GOP being “worse” (depending on policy, of course) doesn’t make the Democratic Party “good,” it just makes them “better” (again, depending on the policy).
And that’s why I’m not registered with either major party, I vote differently based on the election. If I think we need to shift left or I have a really good option for a Dem, I’ll vote Democrat. If I think we need a shift right and I have a really good option for a Rep, I’ll vote Republican. Recently, I’ve been voting more Dem than Rep because I want to send a message that the current signaling just isn’t acceptable. But I’ll go back as soon as the MAGA nonsense goes away and we start getting good GOP candidates again.
When Democrats have control we get worker protections, affordable healthcare, civil rights protections, infrastructure investments, etc.
When Republicans are in charge we get nothing but corruption.
I loved the part where they couldn’t actually refute most of your points & strawmanned some crap about marijuana instead. Also shows how they misunderstand how most civil infrastructure is actually paid for, i.e. federal grants.
Also, comparing a single city to an entire state is a completely fair assessment 🙄
Not necessarily.
I grew up in WA where we mostly wasted money on unfinished projects in downtown Seattle. There wasn’t really any push for worker protections, affordable healthcare, etc at the local level, and just some lip service about “improving infrastructure” and whatnot. But we got recreational marijuana, so I guess that’s nice.
I’m now in Utah, and we have way better rail infrastructure despite having far fewer people. A lot of that was from the Olympics, but the commuter rail (Frontrunner) came years later and was way safer Seattle’s Sounder line and has way higher ridership (like 2-3x). We have plenty of other issues (e.g. notably regressions on trans issues), but in general, things work okay. I think Utah’s UTA has done a better job than WA’s Sound Transit in rolling out rail (e.g. light rail and commuter rail work together in Utah, in WA, they’re completely separate systems).
There’s a lot I miss from WA, and a lot I like about Utah, but the main common factor between them is the things I dislike are generally rammed through on party lines in both states, they’re just different things each state rams through.
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If you’re talking about the GSL, a lot better this year since we had good snowfall. If not, you need to clarify.
I live in Utah too and the thing you conveniently didn’t mention of how the Mormon church literally runs this state. How numerous things the church doesn’t like are outlawed or crazy restricted. Look at the alcohol laws, gambling laws, look at how a worship center is built next to ever school and they get free time every day to go worship during school hours, look at how the church has paid to overturn propositions that get a majority vote through lobbying. Look at the massive homeless problem that exists in a city that is quite literally built around a multi billion dollar religions main place of worship.
You complained about unfinished projects and stuff, I’ll take that in a heartbeat.
the Mormon church literally runs this state
Literally is a strong word. But they do have a lot of influence, and that’s certainly a bad thing.
However, similar things happen elsewhere, but not to the same extent because usually power is split across multiple large organizations. The closest I can think of is Disney in Florida, which has gotten a lot of autonomy and sway that other organizations just don’t have just because they’re a huge employer and tourist destination.
But I do agree, I dislike how much power the church has, and I think a lot of our stupid policies get killed because of that interference, such as:
- DABS - you mentioned this, and it’s been around since the end of prohibition and the church has been involved since the start
- marijuana - we passed a ballot measure that was neutered after statements from the church
- apparently immigration - and a Deseret News article about it (Deseret News is owned by the church, so this could be considered their perspective)
worship center is built next to every school
Are you talking about seminary buildings? I had one where I grew up outside of Utah (and no, I didn’t grow up in AZ or ID where there’s a huge LDS population). It’s a practical matter so students can take their optional religious instruction during the day instead of before or after school. If it’s not near schools, parents would need to take them to/from the seminary building, which means they’d basically be stuck with early morning religious classes.
My high school growing up was directly across from a Lutheran Church, which held a morning prayer circle and I think youth activities after school (or maybe during, I didn’t ask). One of my friends and many of the students attended that church, and I remember getting mini New Testaments from someone from that church once/year.
I don’t see any problem with students optionally taking religious instruction classes during the day, provided they’re still able to meet the requirements for secular education. I didn’t get any slack on graduation requirements (and my religious instruction didn’t count for credits), so I had to take zero hour classes at the high school to make up for it (other students also took those to graduate early). That’s how it should work. Imo, we should encourage this, and encourage more options for breaks in the day for other types of instruction, like apprenticeships, volunteer work, or anything else that’s not appropriate for classroom instruction.
unfortunately projects… I’ll take that in a heartbeat
Utah generally has pretty reasonable laws, and we don’t get most of the nonsense other red states have. However, we certainly have some glaring exceptions:
- SM age verification bill - absolutely despicable, and may drive me from the state; I don’t like SM generally (I only use lemmy), but I think this is a privacy nightmare that’s going to result in lots of ID theft
- porn “ban” - again, same reasoning as the SM law
- abortion ban - I dislike abortion, but I firmly believe it should be an option at the woman’s discretion during the first trimester (on privacy grounds related to miscarriage), and on medical recommendation until viability; I think it should be banned once a woman learns the gender, except in cases of a substantial risk to the life of the woman or fetus
- Constitutional Carry - I’m a firm believer in the 2A and believe we should require states to issue permits, but the current law goes too far; I liked the laws we had before the constitutional carry law was passed
However, similar things happen elsewhere, but not to the same extent because usually power is split across multiple large organizations. The closest I can think of is Disney in Florida, which has gotten a lot of autonomy and sway that other organizations just don’t have just because they’re a huge employer and tourist destination.
Yes, but Disney is just a company. Like the examples you gave, the church can just use it’s money and people to kill anything.
Are you talking about seminary buildings?
Yes I am. I grew up on the east coast and never saw these. They are a huge problem, because they promote Mormonism by leveraging schools. I never see a seminary building for any other religion, just LDS. Which shows its not a public service to allow kids to worship, it’s a tool to push that specific religion and normalize it as THE religion.
I agree on allowing breaks for many activities, but when you have worship centers for a specific religion slapped next to every school, that’s a problem.
On the laws I agree. You mention a lot of really good ones. You forgot to mention a few that I think are silly as well. Such as the “This is a restaurant not a bar” nonsense and all the laws around that. The fact that the state decides what alcohol comes into the state. If they don’t have something you want, too bad, you can’t order it. The fact that Utah is joining the book banning wave but somehow thinks the Bible is appropriate for children. It’s not.
Anyways, my point is, it’s clear that Mormon values strongly steer, if not control, policies and the abilty for people to be heard when they vote. Again, I’ll take failed civic/social projects over that any day.
At the start you said literally run is a strong term. Based on the things both you and I have shown, I stand behind my statement. If a group can overturn the will of the people, they run that state.
Disney is just a company
And that’s essentially how religions work as well. The difference is that companies tend to be more involved in politics than religions. If you’ll notice, the church in Utah doesn’t get involved all that often in local politics, only when something it really cares about is contentious.
I’m not saying it’s right, I’m saying that Utah isn’t as special as many detractors like to claim. Look at any state dominated by one industry and you’ll find a lot of the same issues.
I never see a seminary building for any other religion
Then perhaps that should be more common.
The LDS seminary is much like a Bible study that many of my classmates would go to after school. It’s much more than a worship session, there are tests, homework, and other aspects of a formal education, but the subject matter is religious texts, not secular texts. But the same goals apply: teaching students how to learn for themselves.
In college, I took a class on The Divine Comedy where we went in depth into a single volume. That’s the secular equivalent of what we did in seminary, just with different subject matter.
I would love it if there were Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist centers near secular schools where kids could choose to take a class as a break from secular education (without compromising their secular education). I think it’s really valuable to thoroughly understand the religion you profess to follow, and most people don’t seem to get that far.
“This is a restaurant not a bar”
Yeah, that’s part of the stupid alcohol laws. Add the Zion curtain to that list, which was fortunately repealed IIRC.
But I thought you could order whatever you wanted? Maybe it’s just a request, and they’ll only order it if enough people request it, but I’ve heard the state liquor stores here have a pretty good selection, aside from the glaring fact that you don’t have any options outside of them (and they’re not open on Sundays or holidays).
I don’t drink, but if I could snap my fingers and change some laws, the alcohol laws would be near the top of that list. For a state with a large tourism industry, we do a bad job of actually catering to tourists.
Utah is joining the book banning wave
Yeah, it’s pretty dumb. However, I have heard that some of the LGBT books have gotten a pass where a heterosexual book wouldn’t have been allowed for being too graphic, so maybe there’s an argument here. However, they’ve likely gone too far (I haven’t been keeping track of what the rules actually are).
I agree that religious texts probably shouldn’t be in elementary school libraries. Kids just aren’t mature enough to really understand that many of them are not historical stories, but allegories, and many stories are incredibly graphic. My 9yo is pretty bright (reads at a 6th grade level or so) and still has some issues distinguishing fiction and real life (even in obviously fictional stories like Harry Potter), and adding religion and history into the mix is a recipe for failure.
So either we should just let school libraries make the call, or we heavily curate what is available based on objective standards. I lean toward the former, but as long as there’s consistency, I don’t mind too much, provided the restrictions only apply to school libraries (i.e. my local city library is free to have whatever books patrons want). But upper grade levels should have no such limits.
and the ability for people to be heard when they vote
The same thing happens elsewhere though. As long as there’s a simple majority for a given party, minority interests won’t get much attention. I think the whole notion of geographical voting systems screws everything up because whatever party that’s in power gets to rig the system.
I’m interested in exploring proportional representation, especially in smaller states like Utah where it’s really easy to completely lock out minority parties. That would also help even out state legislatures so things like ballot initiatives would be less likely to be corrupted.
But AFAIK, no state has implemented proportional representation, and few have effective controls against gerrymandering.
The thing that bothers me more than most of this though is the stupid legislation that age gates porn and social media, which is a huge privacy violation that’s just going to end in breaches. I think it’s incredibly short-sighted, and it might be enough to get me to run for office. I’m incredibly lazy though (and I have young kids, so time is limited too), but if that doesn’t get overturned in the courts, I’ll probably run against my state house rep (who had been unopposed since I moved to this district).
I thought Bernie Sanders was a democratic socialist?
Just in case you aren’t trolling, this Article is about Sarah Huckabee-Sanders, the Governess of Arkansas. Bernie Sanders is the senior Senator from Vermont.
Find Bernie Sanders in that photo above, or anywhere in the article that’s linked.
No. You’re the once who wants this. You do it.
Lmao
/s
Right?
Insert Natalie Portman Star Wars meme
This is how liberty dies?
How can they retroactive a law like that? If they can do that why can’t they let the people out of prison in states that legalized weed? They would have let them all out by saying it’s legal retroactive for 30 years.
Because they don’t give a fuck about normal citizens, especially ones who smoke weed.
And just like #DeSantis, this will be used to go on #donor paid #vacations.
How come #Democrats can hold their corrupt Governors to account while the #GOP can’t?
Arkansas, where transparency goes to die. Apparently.
Cool. I had no reason to visit Arkansas before, and this just adds to the list of reasons I’ll avoid that state.
