Not trans people themselves because they can be right or left, the movement - how society is going about accepting them and the view on gender
Leftists of course believe gender is sex (male if you have a Y and female if you don’t). Where being called a she or having surgery doesn’t make you any less of a man.
The path forward for people on the left is to remove gender roles and the stereotypes. However that is on society, not on trans people because if we go by the above logic they feel the way they do because of how society currently is
We are okay with accepting trans people because they don’t have a choice but dislike how society at large is trying to put a bandage (gender surgery, pronouns, bathrooms) on the issue rather than dealing with the root causes
Meanwhile on the right you have the measures we are currently undertaking and on the far right you have people that want to harm the individuals
Assuming you’re saying all this in good faith, I can confidently say your assertions on what leftists believe is entirely off the mark.
In my experience the more left you are, the less you care about gender norms, stereotypes, and roles. More importantly, the most left-wing people I know are the least onboard with the framing of “gender = sex” and “gender is binary”.
Personally in my own political journey, the more radically left I’ve gotten, the more conscious I’ve been of how things actually work for marginalized and queer folk. I used to be largely politically unconscious, and I used to think that “all the trans stuff” was confusing and weird “how can you be non-binary? That doesn’t make any sense at all.”
However, the more I’ve understood the world through a leftist lens, the more I’ve actually comprehended the reality the LGBTQ+ community lives in… and it’s gotten less scary as a result.
I’m very left, and I do not believe an ounce of what you say I’d believe.
I’m sorry it doesn’t make sense to you. But firstly, I didn’t claim I was “against” gender norms, but simply that me and my friends don’t care.
Norms exist, period. You cannot force norms to disappear, but you can make it easy and painless to reject them for how you act in life. I am not against them, I simply pay them no mind.
And gender is more than chromosomes, it’s personal, it’s identity, it’s intimate. Gender need not be something so easily and rigidly defined, we have another term for that, “sex”.
What kind of right-wing values do you think I hold? Because again, “gender = chromosomes” is not a leftist value.
Right, norms change, but there will always be norms. People have traits and tendencies that we can map out. I fall into many norms, and outside of many others.
And the belief that gender and sex are the same thing, is a predominantly conservative, and right-wing view.
Lastly, it’s amusing to me that you’d insinuate that I assume what people are like because of their gender.
Oh well, trolls gonna troll. Hope you have fun, keep it civil. 🤷
Not trans people themselves because they can be right or left, the movement - how society is going about accepting them and the view on gender
Leftists of course believe gender is sex (male if you have a Y and female if you don’t). Where being called a she or having surgery doesn’t make you any less of a man.
The path forward for people on the left is to remove gender roles and the stereotypes. However that is on society, not on trans people because if we go by the above logic they feel the way they do because of how society currently is
We are okay with accepting trans people because they don’t have a choice but dislike how society at large is trying to put a bandage (gender surgery, pronouns, bathrooms) on the issue rather than dealing with the root causes
Meanwhile on the right you have the measures we are currently undertaking and on the far right you have people that want to harm the individuals
Assuming you’re saying all this in good faith, I can confidently say your assertions on what leftists believe is entirely off the mark.
In my experience the more left you are, the less you care about gender norms, stereotypes, and roles. More importantly, the most left-wing people I know are the least onboard with the framing of “gender = sex” and “gender is binary”.
Personally in my own political journey, the more radically left I’ve gotten, the more conscious I’ve been of how things actually work for marginalized and queer folk. I used to be largely politically unconscious, and I used to think that “all the trans stuff” was confusing and weird “how can you be non-binary? That doesn’t make any sense at all.”
However, the more I’ve understood the world through a leftist lens, the more I’ve actually comprehended the reality the LGBTQ+ community lives in… and it’s gotten less scary as a result.
I’m very left, and I do not believe an ounce of what you say I’d believe.
Is this not what I was saying about getting rid of them?
I said we should be helping them though through societal change, rather than continuing what causes these problems for them
Maybe you hold some right wing values, being against gender norms but then saying gender is more than just XX/Y doesn’t make sense
I’m sorry it doesn’t make sense to you. But firstly, I didn’t claim I was “against” gender norms, but simply that me and my friends don’t care.
Norms exist, period. You cannot force norms to disappear, but you can make it easy and painless to reject them for how you act in life. I am not against them, I simply pay them no mind.
And gender is more than chromosomes, it’s personal, it’s identity, it’s intimate. Gender need not be something so easily and rigidly defined, we have another term for that, “sex”.
What kind of right-wing values do you think I hold? Because again, “gender = chromosomes” is not a leftist value.
Of course society can get rid of norms, norms have changed over the years and aren’t consistent between cultures even
Gender and sex are the same term, people are individuals and you’d do better to stop assuming what someone is like because of their gender
Right, norms change, but there will always be norms. People have traits and tendencies that we can map out. I fall into many norms, and outside of many others.
And the belief that gender and sex are the same thing, is a predominantly conservative, and right-wing view.
Lastly, it’s amusing to me that you’d insinuate that I assume what people are like because of their gender.
Oh well, trolls gonna troll. Hope you have fun, keep it civil. 🤷
Conservatives don’t believe in science, they are trying to put on that stance to appeal to a wider range of people and seem rational
They don’t like people deviating from norms
If they truly had this stance then they wouldn’t care about drag
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People moving further to the right on one end doesn’t make the people left of them “the left”
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The claim that leftists are pro-trans because people have moved so far to the right that they demonize the trans community
Your stance is left of the crazies but not a left wing stance