A conversational context is what the ForumWG uses to describe what you might see as a reply tree or comment thread. One of the short-to-medium term goals of the ForumWG is to get conversational backfill working reliably.

What this means — conversational backfill means that when you encounter a post/status/note/etc. (e.g. you’re mentioned or boosted/shared something), there is a reliable and comprehensive way to retrieve the entire conversation around it, so you are not interacting with the object on its own, but in its proper context with all its sibling replies.

We plan to achieve this with a combination of a top-down (FEP-driven) and bottom-up (implementor-first) approach. While this sounds incongruent, top-down approaches tend to overcomplicate and bottom-up approaches tend to violate the protocol (unintentionally of course :joy:.)

There are a number of independent top-down efforts to achieve this:

These FEPs are in the R&D phase.

State of the Top-Down approach

At this time, the ForumWG is only recommending the following:

  • Publishers SHOULD use context for grouping related objects in a thread (but this is not the only way to use context).

There is general agreement over:

  • A context SHOULD resolve to a resource.

There are concerns over:

  • What that resource is (as:OrderedCollection, a new type, something else?)
  • What is included in that context (plain objects or activities)

State of the Bottom-Up approach

The bottom-up approach is results-oriented, and while certain implementors may follow certain FEPs, the overarching goal is “cross-compatible conversational backfill”.

Separately, these implementors are (or have signalled interest in) implementing conversational backfill:

  • FEP 7888
    • NodeBB (@julian) and Discourse (@[email protected])
      • Attaches context to objects
      • context resolves to an OrderedCollection containing objects
      • Two-way conversation backfill is tested and working (7888 only).
    • WordPress (@[email protected]) and Frequency (@[email protected])
      • Attaches context to objects
      • context resolves to an OrderedCollection containing objects
      • Outgoing conversational backfill is tested and working — others can backfill an entire conversation from these implementors.
    • Lemmy (@[email protected]) and PieFed (@[email protected])
      • Have signalled interest (neither positive nor negative) in conversational backfill and are waiting and watching at this time.
  • FEP 171b
    • Mitra (@[email protected])
      • Attaches context to activities
      • context resolves to an OrderedCollection containing activities
      • Incoming conversational backfill is tested and working — Mitra can backfill an entire conversation from FEP 7888 and 171b implementors (:tada: nice!)
    • Hubzilla (@[email protected]) and Streams (@[email protected])
      • Attaches context to activities
      • context resolves to an OrderedCollection containing activities
      • Outgoing conversational backfill is tested and working (against Mitra)

What’s Next

This thread will likely contain updates and discussion from related parties about their implementations and what they wish to do next. In the cruelest irony of ironies, because conversational backfill is not ubiquitous yet, you will need to “View Original URL” in order to see all of the replies.

The ForumWG will meet again on 6 March 13h00 EST where all of this will be discussed, as well as planning out the future focus items for the ForumWG.

If you are an implementor, there is no reason you cannot join the fray. Boost this post, reply to it, join the conversation(al context)!!

If you’re not an implementor, boost me anyway :stuck_out_tongue:

    • julian@community.nodebb.orgOP
      1·
      1 day ago

      @eeeee I’m not actually sure about it, but I think all you have to do is mention the community.

      In fact, you did in your reply, and I don’t actually know what would happen normally. Perhaps it has to be a root post.

  • eeeee@community.nodebb.org
    1·
    2 days ago

    Very complicated all this Fediverse stuff! Far from the dream of having one account for everything, I seemed to need an account on every service to get the whole picture. I have now Nodebb, Mastodon, Lemmy, PixelFed and Peertube! I dont know if Im just not using it properly, or if seeing everything from any one of these site is even possible? @julian how far off is the prospect of using my nodebb account for all Federated chat, is that even achievable in long term?

    • Kichae@community.nodebb.org
      1·
      2 days ago

      @eeeee From this website, you can follow almost any user account you want on almost any Mastodon-, Lemmy-, mbin-, PixelFed-, Misskey- (and its forks), Hometown-, Friendica-, Hubzilla-, or Mitra-based website, barring a few minor obstacles (neither side needs to have blocked the other, neither side needs to have disabled federation, and the user you’re following needs to have not blocked you). You can also follow groups like Lemmy communities, or Guppe groups.

      There’s really no need to have accounts on all platforms. Not unless you want to have separation between what you post, or want the variation in UX that comes with all of these different pieces of software focusing on different core experiences.

      What’s important to know is that they work via syndication – content is mirrored across the network, not viewed insitu – and that syndication doesn’t occur without prompting. So, you need to go through the steps of entering a remote user or group’s url or full account address ([email protected]) in order to fetch content, and that content, by and large, is not backfilled.

      If you can accept these limitations, then a single Mastodon, mbin, nodeBB, etc. account is all you need.

      • julian@community.nodebb.orgOP
        1·
        2 days ago

        @Kichae @eeeee that is my approach as well. I was tired of having to maintain so many accounts for “social media”, and so when I was finally able to make NodeBB my primary gateway to social media that was a big step for me.

        It doesn’t hurt that I get way more engagement on the open social web 😅

        • Kichae@community.nodebb.org
          1·
          2 days ago

          @julian “We’re making a super cool product that’s adopting this space” tends to go over well in the Fediverse, yeah. We love being catered to with cool toys and tools!

          And good God do I miss real forums, after a decade on Reddit.

  • Mario Vavti@hub.somaton.com
    1·
    7 days ago

    @julian Hubzilla internally backfills via context. Has done so all along. Activitypub content is so far backfilled via inReplyTo traversal and the replies collection.